6.8 western rifle

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LoonWulf said:
So while not picking sides this time, I do want to point out that ANYONE can benefit from any ballistic advantage.
Reducing the controllable variables, even a little, stacks the tables in favor of the shooter.
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Of course. At any distance where a wind hold is required, which in many conditions starts between 150 and 200 yards, literally any shooter can benefit from the sort of 2x reduction in wind drift that a good choice of cartridge and bullet can provide over a mediocre choice.
 
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Slamfire said:
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You might ask, why would anyone write an article for $400, surely there is no profit in the time, effort, and materials spent?. Call it brand promotion, brand awareness. All the time people are subjecting themselves to humiliating situations on TV just so they can have national attention for an hour, and promote, "their brand".

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It didn't take long, several dozen articles or so, several decades ago, before I realized I wouldn't get an honest assessment of a firearm or cartridge from the magazine article writers. Some of them are fun to read just for the hype though. As far as those who are willing to humiliate themselves to get attention, do you think there is hope for our favorite chuckleheads on u-tube to try "more honest" ballistic tests? This is with the understanding that some are much more objective than others.
 
I have no idea what writer is paid. You have member asking for loads and how many of those work out ? What are you going to do with a load in manual that doesn't work out.
 
So, lets get a show of hands ...how many here tossing their negative crap in the ring have actually fired this round ? Anyone that has not is just throwing meaningless words around . That is the simple truth . I know it hurts the thin-skinned .
 
I noticed the boxes of ammo a few months ago at the local Big R. Had me thinking about it, but the ammo will dry up when the next toilet paper/ammo shortage panic buying ensues. The cartridge that has my eye right now in this class is the 27 nosler. I don't need it, and 99.9% sure won't buy one, but it just has my eye. Looks really good when you do a spomer paper comparison.
 
TheClasonater said:
I noticed the boxes of ammo a few months ago at the local Big R. Had me thinking about it, but the ammo will dry up when the next toilet paper/ammo shortage panic buying ensues
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Perhaps true, but if you handload you could get between 100-200 rounds of factory ammo and more or less set for life (depending on how much you shoot, natch). The life of the barrel will probably be 1k-1.5k. If you buy it to shoot some kind of competition then maybe this isn't a great plan. But for a guy who wants to hunt with it and stay sharp between seasons a couple hundred rounds of ammo with an eye towards reloading the brass should have you set.
 
I think the intended audience for the new 'uber-cartridges' is probably geeks with a lot of disposable income and younger guys that probably don't have three full gun safes yet. I live in SW Montana and with a 9mm for CCW, a .22 LR (pistol or rifle), a 12ga and an ought-six I could probably take about any animal in the state. Not that I would want to limit myself to just those guns.:rofl: Throw in an AR to repel boarders and I'd be relatively set. While I don't have a ton of interest in a 6.8 Western I can see why some folks do. Personally I would rather have a 6.5 Grendel and a case of steel ammo!
 
Dale Alan said:
.. Anyone that has not is just throwing meaningless words around .
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With all due respect, just because a big company comes out with a new highly hyped caliber doesn’t obligate one to run out and try it before making an informed opinion. Sometimes it’s obvious the manufacturers are just throwing out products hoping to have the new “superstar” of ammunition, or win a big gov contract
 
twarr1 said:
With all due respect, just because a big company comes out with a new highly hyped caliber doesn’t obligate one to run out and try it before making an informed opinion. Sometimes it’s obvious the manufacturers are just throwing out products hoping to have the new “superstar” of ammunition, or win a big gov contract
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No kidding, pretty obvious you don't have to buy it . But sitting here bashing something without ANY EXPERIENCE is just foolish. Some folks think they know waaaay more than do, sadly they find it easy to be negative towards something they don't even know about.
 
Phaedrus/69 said:
Personally I would rather have a 6.5 Grendel and a case of steel ammo!
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agghhhh! another vile newcomer!!!!

I tease.....I went the Grendel and a case of steel route myself, my 527 didn't care for it, so I built an AR upper to eat it....that one actually shot it pretty well.

I started with an 06, and I may end with an 06, but right now I prefer to play with all the gidgits, gadgets, and doo-dads. While I have no interest in the 6.8 Stubby, or the .27 Uber, that doesn't mean they aren't interesting and I hope any who adopt them enjoy the heck out of them.
Right now Im playing with a .270 Cal mag
Dale Alan said:
No kidding, pretty obvious you don't have to buy it . But sitting here bashing something without ANY EXPERIENCE is just foolish. Some folks think they know waaaay more than do, sadly they find it easy to be negative towards something they don't even know about.
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Not arguing but i just wanted to point out again that anyone with access to the interwebs and a balistic app/program can get a pretty decent idea of what the cartridges numbers are. With that info its not hard to figgure out what advantages or disadvantages any cartdidge is likely to provide.
If a person choose for or against thats their decision, but theres really no magic in making an informed decision about a cartridge these days.

Personally i dont care for the .277 bore, and would rather have a 6.5 or 7mm.PRC. Thats mostly based on personal preference with a smidge of practicality/logic tossed in.......not enough to matter mind you, but a bit.
 
Could this be the concept that the WSM family of cartridges should have been from the get-go? That is, the ability to launch high BC projectiles in a short action with a fast twist barrel. The fact is that such bullets are superior for long range shooting which seems to be the rage today.

.270 caliber is the flagship of Winchester and has made them alot of money over the years and that is what they chose. Comparing 6.5/.270/7mm is just one kind of apple to another and if components are made available there is not much real world difference.

The question that has been raised is if it is necessary for hunting and if the advantages that it offers can be ethically utilized by most hunters. Personally I'd never try hunting shots much over 400 yds. and I can do that with cartridges that are available now. But that's just me.
 
LoonWulf said:
Not arguing but i just wanted to point out again that anyone with access to the interwebs and a balistic app/program can get a pretty decent idea of what the cartridges numbers are. With that info its not hard to figgure out what advantages or disadvantages any cartdidge is likely to provide.
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Yup - it's easy to get trajectories and windage for pretty much anything. With a copy of QuickLoad you can figure out what velocity will be to within a percent or two. Even if you don't have it someone else can do a run. The only part the average shooter is missing is the ability to merge error from wind with error from mechanical or shooter inaccuracy. But even that's not that hard - it's just a square root of sum of squares thing. But lots of people don't know how to do it.

In terms of case geometry, it's not too hard to get a feel for what the Sebert's factor should be for a given case. Beyond that, the geometry really just determines brass stretch, and we understand that well enough at this point.

All in all, it's possible to know what the velocity, exterior ballistics, field accuracy, and reloadability of a cartridge are going to be before the first case is formed. Ballistics really has, in halting steps, become a science.
 
I'm not bashing anyone who wants to try/use/own the 6.8 Western or any other cartridge, new or old. To each their own. I like many different types of firearms. The 6.8 Western fills a slightly different niche than the 270, and it might be perfect for some shooters. That's great!
I'm just pointing out that there is a difference between a company developing a new product that is an improvement on the state of the art and a company that produces new products from the marketing department.
To say you can't or shouldn't have an opinion on something if you haven't tried it might apply in many cases, but in this instance there is enough empirical data to make an informed decision.
 
LoonWulf said:
Not arguing but i just wanted to point out again that anyone with access to the interwebs and a balistic app/program can get a pretty decent idea of what the cartridges numbers are. With that info its not hard to figgure out what advantages or disadvantages any cartdidge is likely to provide.
If a person choose for or against thats their decision, but theres really no magic in making an informed decision about a cartridge these days.

Personally i dont care for the .277 bore, and would rather have a 6.5 or 7mm.PRC. Thats mostly based on personal preference with a smidge of practicality/logic tossed in.......not enough to matter mind you, but a bit.
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I've alluded to having compared and contrasted alot of popular and obscure cartridges while feeling out a new hunting rifle.

I looked at alot of different cartridges and loadings. Specifically looking for the best cartridge for western medium sized game.

The 6.8 Western is marginally better than the majority of cartridges. But that's the catch, there's a bunch of cartridges that work better than "average". Heck, even "average" cartridges work fantastically. Cartridges have been making very incremental increases for a long time. It's not the one I'd pick, but on paper it does look good. I'd rather pick a 6.5 or 7mm cartridge though. (For reference, I considered a 165gr SGK 308win loading as my baseline "average")

Heck, I'm planning on switching my 308win barrel out to a 243Win once I've got all my current 308win supplies used up (thanks @LoonWulf ). It's not a new whizzbang cartridge, but it's still plenty for coyote, pronghorn and javalina.

The next rifle I buy will probably be a ground up purpose built hunting rifle, as opposed to my current range toy-turned hunting rifle. As such it'll be built either as a long action or a WSM in either a 6.5 or 7mm cartridge. I'm thinking 6.5-06/6.5WSM or 280AI/7WSM.

It's a good cartridge for its intended purpose. But it's an incremental step up from a 270WSM, which is a small step up from a 270win, which is a small step up from a 30-06, which is a small step up from... you get the point. It's also a small step down from a 7mm Rem Mag, which is a small step down from the varied Weatherby cartridges. I'd pick the 6.8W over the 270WSM, and be well served, but theres other cartridges I'd pick first.
 
the 277 caliber has been waiting a long time for a faster twist barrel to utilize heavy bullets. if you used a 270 win with a faster twist, you could gain distance with heavy bullets...

a new chambering is neat... but isnt the case a bi-metal case? steel base and brass upper half? this would allow higher pressures, sure.... but can you reload it? If so, how many reloads can one shell take?

IMHO, it would have made more sense to put a faster twist rate on a 270 wsm, 270 Win, 270 Weatherby.. instead of reinventing the wheel...

Marketing sells..
 
Grumpy_old_Fart said:
a new chambering is neat... but isnt the case a bi-metal case? steel base and brass upper half? this would allow higher pressures, sure.... but can you reload it? If so, how many reloads can one shell take?

IMHO, it would have made more sense to put a faster twist rate on a 270 wsm, 270 Win, 270 Weatherby.. instead of reinventing the wheel...

Marketing sells..
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You're thinking of the .277 Sig Fury.

The one 270 WSM gun I measured had quite a bit of mag space and throat beyond the nominal .270 WSM spec, so in practice I think this is interchangable with a .270 WSM with a fast twist barrel. The problem though is that without a new cartridge specification, you can't get the mainline ammo makers to make ammo that requires a fast twist. They know such ammo it will fail in the "normal" version of the gun, and they'd get unhappy customers. 270 WSM was an opportunity to correct the problem, but Winchester has historically been dumb about twist so they missed the opportunity. So no we get to do it again.
 
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Llama Bob said:
Winchester has historically been dumb about twist so they missed the opportunity. So no we get to do it again.
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well, they did catch up on one rifle... 2020 shot show special 1885 Winchester chambered in 300 PRC has a 1:8 twist barrel. I think the 28 Nosler chambering in that rifle also has a 1:8 twist.
 
Grumpy_old_Fart said:
well, they did catch up on one rifle... 2020 shot show special 1885 Winchester chambered in 300 PRC has a 1:8 twist barrel. I think the 28 Nosler chambering in that rifle also has a 1:8 twist.
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Those shot 1885s are fun, especially if they're pistol grip stocks. I hadn't heard what they did for 2020. I don't need a 28 Nosler 1885... I don't need a 28 Nosler 1885... I don't need a 28 Nosler 1885 :D
 
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