Minimum trigger weight for carry?

UncleEd said:

Although few readers of this thread
have actually responded to the
poll which is the lead-off, I'm happy
to see that nearly 82% who did vote
prefer a trigger of four or more pounds.

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The trigger pull weight is too dependent on the action type.
I could answer 3 pounds. (Cocked and locked 1911. My HKP7)

6 pounds smooth DA trigger (DAK)

You ask "pistol" so i said 4.5 to 5. Striker fired still scare me a bit. I love the trigger on my Para Carry LDA. I won't say what my Colt Officers is.

sgt127 said:

The trigger pull weight is too dependent on the action type.
I could answer 3 pounds. (Cocked and locked 1911. My HKP7)

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No, not so. The safety once off has no bearing on
just how you'll manage the trigger with adrenaline
flowing.

Or do you leave the safety on until the last split
second of deciding to fire?

This is an interesting thread. I really do not know my preferred trigger pull weight is for handguns. For rifle, I like a 4.5 lb level, similar what is used for Service Rifle competition. That level works well on my prairie dog rifles,. particularly with two stage triggers.

I do not shoot bench rest or similar competition so lower trigger release levels do not apply to me.

My main self defense pistol, HK P30SK-V3 trigger is a SA/DA pistol. I've trained to get good hits with the DA trigger and it gives a good level of safety due to the high DA trigger pull.

Maybe I'll put a spring gauge on the trigger some time and see what the trigger pull weight really is.

UncleEd said:

No, not so. The safety once off has no bearing on
just how you'll manage the trigger with adrenaline
flowing.

Or do you leave the safety on until the last split
second of deciding to fire?

Click to expand...

Yes. 1911. Thumb on safety. Trigger pull is two steps. Drop safety. Pull trigger.

Carried a 1911 for 20 years as a duty gun. Pointed the gun at a lot of people that were at the incipient point of being shot.

I may have dropped the safety a couple times. As I watched him drop the gun in his hand. The safety was off....

Safeties stay on until I was ready to shoot. I did it with 1911’s. MP5’s and AR’s.

Amongst real gun guys? The above is bull ****.

You are not gonna be pressed up against my back on an entry or, Bouncing around in a van with the safety off.

Sgt127,
No doubt you were and are a trained
exception, especially in the 1911.

But I feel this thread is one of
generalities as to trigger weights
and not about the exceptions who
might, and I stress might, be
very safe gun handlers with
3-pound SA triggers.

May I ask, were all the officers
you worked with as well trained
and proficient as you? And did
you trust them as much as you
trusted yourself?

How does the trigger weight affect the shot if your finger is NOT on the trigger? Do you have your finger on the trigger the moment the gun clears the holster or do you keep it off the trigger after the target is acquired? So many questions....
I'm going back to my coffee and moving ON.

Perfect for me is between 4-5lbs.

UncleEd said:

Sgt127,
No doubt you were and are a trained
exception, especially in the 1911.

But I feel this thread is one of
generalities as to trigger weights
and not about the exceptions who
might, and I stress might, be
very safe gun handlers with
3-pound SA triggers.

May I ask, were all the officers
you worked with as well trained
and proficient as you? And did
you trust them as much as you
trusted yourself?

Click to expand...

The vast majority were. We are talking early 80’s. IPSC was in vogue. A lot of our guys shot IPSC. Especially on SWAT. I was a firearms instructor early on and I always preached the safety was a part of the trigger.

I actually ran them with a PACT timer. Finger off trigger. Safety off, fire on the beep.

Finger off trigger, thumb on safety, fire on the beep.

There was no difference in time.

We’re they all that skilled? Sadly, no. But we had very few AD’s. I recall one an officer was searching an attic. Fell through the ceiling. Hand tightened, gun went bang. It was a 1911, safety off. But, that inadvertent clenching likely would have fired any handgun. (Except, as pointed out to him, a 1911 with the safety on).

I also appreciated a safety on a duty gun. Any Neanderthal that can wrap their hand around a Glock, Or DA revolver (any gun without an off switch) can fire it. A manual safety buys just a little time.

I’m really old school. I originally only shot revolvers. My first formal firearms instructor in 1984 (and close friend for 40 years) was a personal student of Jeff Cooper and, one of the first Instructors at Gunsight.

Any reasonably short light trigger is better served with a manual safety and, the skill to use it.

I think short light triggers are ripe for accidental discharges.

And, as much as I consider myself a top tier gunslinger (insert sarcasm emoji) I generally carry a Sig P239 DAK or, a lowly revolver.

Although the trigger break pressure is important say 4.0#'s The break should be crisp with little to no creep, predictable and consistent! This is where gunsmiths make the big bucks!

What's just as important is knowing the self defense laws in your jurisdiction, practice defensive tacticts from the holster and practice, practice, practice!

Smiles,

Kleanbore said:

Stock.

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Exactly. For a carry gun I don't mess with it.

Spats McGee said:

I voted 4.5 to 5.0 lbs. That's my ideal range, which is what the poll asks. I wouldn't knowingly go below 4.

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Also agree. My 1911s have been a pretty consistent 4.5 and with no travel and a crisp break that's perfect, I wouldn't want it much lighter.

Then again, I shoot the DA pull on my 11 lb HK trigger just as well, inside 15 yards.

Sgt127,

I appreciate your thoughtful response.
A thank you is in order.

UncleEd said:

Sgt127,

I appreciate your thoughtful response.
A thank you is in order.

Click to expand...

You are very welcome. Just rambling musings.

When we went to issue Glocks, I handled them like rattlesnakes. Putting them in the gun locker. Reholstering etc. it felt really unnatural to not have that off switch.

When I carry a 1911 or a Glock, I will only carry it on my right hip. Outside waistband. If everything goes wrong, I may have a crease in my butt cheek.

Appendix? Not so much.

The holsters I carried also had a thumb strap under the hammer. No matter what else went wrong. That hammer could not reach the firing pin. Period.

I would occasionally get the well meaning person...
“Say Sergeant! You know the hammers cocked on that thing?”

(Look down with shocked expression)

“Dammit! I hate when it does that! Last time I tried getting it down, the sumbitch went off on me...can you give me a hand?”

Other than changing the shape of the trigger on one pistol I used to have I leave them stock. I voted 4 1/2 to 5 pounds.

I had a neighbor that used to be a corrections officer. He carried a G-23. It seems he was having trouble qualifying at 25 yards so he got someone to work the trigger. I didn't have a scale & he no longer has it so I don't really know what the trigger weight was after he had it worked but I would have been scared to carry it. It was fun busting water bottles with it at hunting camp. I'd get the sights on the bottle, think about pulling the trigger & watch it explode.

Kleanbore said:

Stock.

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Yep agree with ..whatever the manufacturer gives me. My P365XL and Shield Plus I'm guessing in the 4 to 6 lb range. My P30's as well as my Firestorm give me a heavy DA pull and of course a light SA pull, but they're both l-o-n-g which I really like because they give me that moment to change my mind.

Glock advertises 5.5 lbs. That I'm OK with, same with factory Smith M&P's. Any lighter and I want a safety. I have a Sig 365 and while it may be pretty close to Glock, it FEELS lighter and smoother to me. For that reason I chose the one with a safety. The Sig M17 is in the same category. I also have a 1st gen Smith M&P 45 with the Apex trigger that rivals a good 1911 at under 4 lbs. I wouldn't have added that trigger if it didn't have a safety.

So, do people actually train to have their finger inside the trigger gaurd before they're ready to fire?

The weight depends on the pistol; I voted with the 1911 in mind, and I like it at 4.5#, which is the minimum weight for military handguns, as well as rifles. (except sniper rifles, of course) This is the weight I set all our units' rifles and pistols used in the post matches at. Obviously, 4.5 is too light for a DA, revolver or semiauto.

Howland937 said:

So, do people actually train to have their finger inside the trigger gaurd before they're ready to fire?

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Even when shooters are vigorously trained not to place
the finger on the trigger many do it without even
realizing it.

Making mistakes is human nature.

There's take up, trigger safety, and I keep my trigger off the trigger until I'm ready to shoot. I'm not worried about my carry gun going off because it has a 4lbish trigger. I also pay attention when holstering. There shouldn't be any rush when holstering an EDC. The gun isn't going to go off by itself.

UncleEd said:

Even when shooters are vigorously trained not to place
the finger on the trigger many do it without even
realizing it.

Making mistakes is human nature.

Click to expand...

I can attest to that. I instruct CPL classes and the two biggest no-no's that I cite is trigger and muzzle discipline. I spend a good portion of time discussing gun safety, but it seems to all go for naught when we hit the range.

UncleEd said:

Even when shooters are vigorously trained not to place
the finger on the trigger many do it without even
realizing it.

Making mistakes is human nature.

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Ok, I was just curious if the preference for a heavier trigger was meant as a precaution against unsafe handling.

sgt127 said:

Yes. 1911. Thumb on safety. Trigger pull is two steps. Drop safety. Pull trigger

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The biggest argument against guns with mechanical safety for defense is the number of steps required prior to being ready to fire. Not "foolproof" enough compared to striker fired.

Most everything I've learned/been instructed (which admittedly isn't truly extensive) involves disengagement of safety as the gun is coming up, all in one motion...with finger clear of the trigger gaurd.

Human error, such as pulling the trigger when it isn't justified (Intentionally or unintentionally) is cause for potentially severe repercussions. The difference between a 3# and a 5# trigger isn't going to change that.

All speculation of course, since I've not personally experienced that situation. I'll further speculate that anyone who's still covering the trigger even after vigorous training needs more training.

Single action, manual safety. Trigger at 3 pounds is ideal for me.

If I draw, then it's finger on trigger and thumb on safety immediately.

Don't worry about my trigger finger. The first move is thumb.

At point blank, a 3 to 8 pound trigger doesn't matter to me, it's all about speed.

At 50 yards, the 3 pound trigger makes me lethal because I can consistently hit small targets.

Ru4real said:

Single action, manual safety. Trigger at 3 pounds is ideal for me.

If I draw, then it's finger on trigger and thumb on safety immediately.

Don't worry about my trigger finger. The first move is thumb.

At point blank, a 3 to 8 pound trigger doesn't matter to me, it's all about speed.

At 50 yards, the 3 pound trigger makes me lethal because I can consistently hit small targets.

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Question, are all you 3 lb 1911 guys modifying (self or gunsmith) your triggers down to 3 lbs, because I can't think of any stock 1911s that come with triggers that light. 4.5 seems to be the standard.

Personally that's light enough for a CCW, IMO, safety or no.