.25 acp pistol question

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Darth-Vang

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I read somewhere that european made pistols headspace on the rim while american made pistols headspace on the case mouth? Is that true? I planned to reload for that caliber in a not too distant future. I have a Astra Cub and a Beretta Jetfire 950 BS. Does anyone know if the guns headspace on either the case mouth or on the rims? And if it’s true that european made guns headspaces on the rims then is it safe to assume that the brass made in europe have slightly different specs?
 
It's all about the caliber, not where the gun is made. 25, 32 and 38 acp are all "semi-rimless" and headspace on a barely there rim. There is actually a tiny recess in the chamber. The best explanation I've read has been the Headspace chapter in Hatcher's Notebook. It's a must have book imho.
 
The semi-rimless design is more important when dealing with feeding from a magazine and with what shell holder works for it. I would reload it the same way that i reload for a rimless round. I have reloaded for all three of them that you have mentioned and all went bang. This was for older pistols and function rather than accuracy was the goal. I assume the semi-rimless design was an engineers solution and was not used on the 380 because it really did not add anything positive. .
the semi-rimmed case is also used in the .38 super that is commonly reloaded by some gun gamers.
 
corpo said:
It's all about the caliber, not where the gun is made. 25, 32 and 38 acp are all "semi-rimless" and headspace on a barely there rim. There is actually a tiny recess in the chamber. The best explanation I've read has been the Headspace chapter in Hatcher's Notebook. It's a must have book imho.
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So how do we explain the “roll crimp” on the reloading dies? Most of the dies have a roll crimp on both the .25 auto and .32 auto. So if it was to be headspaced on the case mouth shouldn’t the die come equipped with taper crimp instead of a roll crimp? I know revolvers heaspaces on the rim and uses a roll crimp for the bullets…
 
Darth-Vang said:
So how do we explain the “roll crimp” on the reloading dies? Most of the dies have a roll crimp on both the .25 auto and .32 auto. So if it was to be headspaced on the case mouth shouldn’t the die come equipped with taper crimp instead of a roll crimp? I know revolvers heaspaces on the rim and uses a roll crimp for the bullets…
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I always a apply a slight roll crimp to any auto pistol cartridge so a slightly bell out case mouth does not catch preventing feeding. Most of my dies being older only have a roll crimp to them.
 
OP, you seriously gain my ultimate respect for taking on reloading of the .25acp. I know I couldn't do it. I have enough trouble with .380. I couldn't work with such small caliber!
 
Carl N. Brown said:
Checking the .25 ACP in my inventory, the R-P and Win rounds are taper crimped, not roll crimped.
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Just checked my Fiocchi brand and my R-P .25 acp. It seems that the Fiocchi brand are roll crimped and the R-P aren’t. I just noticed that when “plunking” the fiocchi in both my Astra Cub and Beretta 950 BS Jetfire, it didn’t chamber all the way in! But when I plunk the R-P cartridge in, it was flushed!! So that tells me both my .25 acp headspace at the case mouth!! :uhoh: A little note: when I first shot the lil beretta the trigger guard broke after a couple of shots using the Fiocchi brand! But that was a while back. Not sure if that had to do with the roll crimped fiocchi cartridges? Of course that was before I knew anything about the semi rimmed headspace stuff….
 
I think it headspaces on the rim like .32 acp. I load some .32 ACP - and it headpsaces on the rim. The rim will not enter into the chamber, and it sets the depth the round will enter the chamber. Pretty sure it should plunk in and out and clearly settle on the rim when plunked. If you have rounds not plunking in and out - and it is factory ammo, you may have an issue. Well you do, but it may just be you need to clean the chamber well.
 
Carl N. Brown said:
I would expect that the outside dimensions would be standardized on a 100 year old cartridge and that there would little difference in manufacturers on ammunition.

As to whether European manufacturers headspace on the rim while American manufacturers headspace on the mouth is an interesting question.
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I would expect just the opposite for the .25 considering how cheap some where that QC was not high on chambers and between metric and inch systems along with ammo manufacture stretching from the USA to china. As long as the firing pin has good protrusion and is centered the round should go bang.
 
barnetmill said:
I would expect just the opposite for the .25 considering how cheap some where that QC was not high on chambers and between metric and inch systems along with ammo manufacture stretching from the USA to china. As long as the firing pin has good protrusion and is centered the round should go bang.
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I agree. I always thought the Spanish automatic pistols makers in Eibar who flourished from 1905 to 1936 preferred the 25 ACP and 32 ACP because it was easier to make barrels for cartridges that headspaced on the semi-rim. You see only a small number of 380's from them, usually from the better manufacturers.
 
film495 said:
I think it headspaces on the rim like .32 acp. I load some .32 ACP - and it headpsaces on the rim. The rim will not enter into the chamber, and it sets the depth the round will enter the chamber. Pretty sure it should plunk in and out and clearly settle on the rim when plunked. If you have rounds not plunking in and out - and it is factory ammo, you may have an issue. Well you do, but it may just be you need to clean the chamber well.
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I don’t know about a dirty chamber. It is a cleaned chamber before I plunk test it. Forgot to mention that when I plunk the Fiocchi cartridges, it goes in with the cartridge not fully flushed and it won’t drop out freely either. The R-P cartridges goes in flush and comes drops out freely. That tells me that both my pistols chamber on the case mouth and not on the rim…if you don’t believe me, go grab a box of .25 acp Fiocchi brand and any american made .25 acp ammo and try for yourself.
 
Darth-Vang said:
I don’t know about a dirty chamber. It is a cleaned chamber before I plunk test it. Forgot to mention that when I plunk the Fiocchi cartridges, it goes in with the cartridge not fully flushed and it won’t drop out freely either. The R-P cartridges goes in flush and comes drops out freely. That tells me that both my pistols chamber on the case mouth and not on the rim…if you don’t believe me, go grab a box of .25 acp Fiocchi brand and any american made .25 acp ammo and try for yourself.
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I'll take your word for it. Just thought it headspaced on the rim like .32 ACP, and what your explaining to me sounds like a failed plunk test, where something is obstructing the round from fully entering the chamber, or the round is bulged or dented.
 
My earlier Beretta .25's have this issue.

I believe it's the bullet hitting the rifling. I have a later Jetfire that takes anything, and a few others that take Fiocchi, barely, PPU, barely, and Aguila, Magtech, and PMC no problem. Weird.

I honestly dont know what they headspace on.
 
Congrats on owning an Astra Cub, as a .25 ACP collector/shooter it's far and away my favorite. My Cubs are capable of excellent accuracy in the right hands.

As for reloading .25 ACP it's not that hard. I use an RCBS Pro2000 progressive and found I had to buy oversized shell plates (45-70) and modify both the plate's holes and standard .25 ACP shell holders and press them into the plate, it turned into a lot of work! But the only difficulty loading .25 ACP now is handling the little bullets, as I have no bullet feeder.
 
I have the Lee die set.

Works fine.

I'm new to reloading and .25 acp was my first auto cartridge to reload.

55 gr Rimrock bullets never worked right. They have to sit too deep in my guns. Bullet is just too long.

I was very lucky to find Remington FMJ's. I've found no other jacketed bullets since buying out those FMJ's except Gold Dots and XTP's I dont want.
 
HisSoldier said:
Congrats on owning an Astra Cub, as a .25 ACP collector/shooter it's far and away my favorite. My Cubs are capable of excellent accuracy in the right hands.

As for reloading .25 ACP it's not that hard. I use an RCBS Pro2000 progressive and found I had to buy oversized shell plates (45-70) and modify both the plate's holes and standard .25 ACP shell holders and press them into the plate, it turned into a lot of work! But the only difficulty loading .25 ACP now is handling the little bullets, as I have no bullet feeder.
Click to expand...
Curious, given on how small the charges are, and seeing the charge max weight isn’t too far off, do you use a quality scale that can read .00”g grains? I sure as heck don’t want to blow myself up…
 
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