168 gr BTHP hornady

With the information you supplied, in my opinion starting at 38.0 grains would be fine.

Average them all out and use the average for your starting load and stopping load. Most likely if shooting for accuracy you won’t need the upper ~15% anyway.

There is a reason the recipe is different. The bullets are DIFFERENT. Pressure can be different.

No substitution. Any item changed in the recipe, then start over. If you cannot find a recipe for the powder/bullet/case/primer you currently have, email or call the powder manufacturer. They can help you with the correct info.

Use modern (updated/current) reloading info. Don't rely on old books.

dcloco said:

There is a reason the recipe is different. The bullets are DIFFERENT. Pressure can be different.

No substitution. Any item changed in the recipe, then start over. If you cannot find a recipe for the powder/bullet/case/primer you currently have, email or call the powder manufacturer. They can help you with the correct info.

Use modern (updated/current) reloading info. Don't rely on old books.

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Who said they were sourcing data from "old reloading books"? The op sourced Hodgdon & Lyman data, online.

To the OP, what powder are we talking about utilizing 38gr as a starting load with your 168gr Hornady bullet?

Hornady stops where they find unacceptable (too them) pressure variations.
With Hornady bullets, I usually find the most accurate load at or near their top charge.
Í that doesn't work. I reference the other data.

As has been said, repeatedly, of charge data:

edwardware said:

It's data.

It's not doctrine, it's not true; it is at best correct. The data reflects measurements made in a lab (not yours), with a batch of powder (not yours), in a barrel/chamber (not yours). All of those differences are small enough that the data should provide you with reasonably close starting and maximum points, but there is no reason to imagine that they're exact.

I own rifles that show very high pressure signs at halfway from Start to Max load, and others that happily shoot 5-10% over max.

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Hornady's data is correct, and so is Sierra's. It's unlikely that differences between bullets are the largest contributor to the differences in the data. Use either, or both, or someone elses. Provided that you start low and pay attention, you'll be fine.

Vloc1987 said:

I figured that’s how hornady was. I mean their max charge for the bullet I want is close to what other max charges in other data. It just threw me for a loop on how low they started their charges at. I was thinking, man if I start my load development from 32 grains there’s a lot and I mean a lot of loads I would have to work up before I get to max charge to see where my accuracy node is.

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Have you loaded for this rifle before?
If not, at least load one cartridge starting at the minimum charge. Stepping up by no more than half a grain.
I am a big fan of the Audette ladder system because I find my nodes while testing for pressure signs.
I've blown primers at Hornady max before. It was 3 grains below Hogdon. Imagine if I had gone straight to Hogdon max.

Observations of a newb.......one who is also doing some load workup for 308. I find myself somewhere between amused and astounded that you can find find such wild load data differences, depending on where you look. I have found similar load data from Lyman, Speer, Lee, Hornady, etc and then depending on which powder you use, cross references from the powder companies. VV, Hodgdon and Accurate.

Some, like Lyman, are very specific.......case, primer, bullet, powder, COAL all described in detail. Others, like the Lee data......bullet is "jacketed soft point" and weighs 150 grains. On one hand, very detailed and specific. Others.....not so much.

But in once case, I found same bullet and powder and start and max loads were exactly 4 grains difference. Generally find the highest numbers for load data come from powder makers, and generally that is Hodgdon. Have wondered if they have an adventurous need for speed at Hodgdon.

But one of the things I have done in my load workup is to put together a spreadsheet.....one that shows all the load data, a duplicate of something like load data in the Lyman.......and do that for as many as 3 different load sources....including velocities for the start and max. For example, currently working up some loads using 150 grain Speer Hot Cor and VV140. So three data sources are Lyman manual, Speer and VV powder load data for same or similar bullets. From the range, I'll pick a start and max level, and load in .2 grain increments, which will be recorded for velocity to see how mine compare to those. Being in a spreadsheet, that is then a short step to graphing the outcomes to find nodes. And if one wanted to you could also take a snapshot of the group sizes from selected loads, put that on the sheet and keep it all together in a notebook for future reference.

Vloc1987 said:

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Yes I’ve loaded for my 308 a couple times. I’ve used material from same sources and seated at what the load data has told me to. So now I’m going to be doing my own load development and using the ogive to get my seating depth instead of the books. I’m pulling .020 of the lands and going to find a charge that gives me my accuracy node after I work up my loads then going to mess with my seating depth to find time my accuracy node even more.

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I was asking because you get an idea where you will find pressure agree doing a few load work ups.
I would recommend reading the Àudette method and the OCW. Then follow the on you prefer.

bullseye308 said:

Average them all out and use the average for your starting load and stopping load. Most likely if shooting for accuracy you won’t need the upper ~15% anyway.

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Do you average the speed limits on interstate and highways?

Data for one bullet often doesn’t apply to another, for good reason, even despite equivalent weight.

Another_Kelley said:

Who said they were sourcing data from "old reloading books"? The op sourced Hodgdon & Lyman data, online.

To the OP, what powder are we talking about utilizing 38gr as a starting load with your 168gr Hornady bullet?

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So....a gent with 17 posts is asking advice about reloading.

My kind reminder to not use old/dated reloading info puts a craw in your neck?

OP actually sourced THREE different companies, but referred to two as online.

Ohhhh, so you're saying the op WAS on the right track by sourcing THREE different companies for his starting point. Because your first post didn't exactly read like a 'kind reminder'... but I'm totally over it, and I certainly hope there isn't any 'craws' in your neck region.

I.plot every load data for that specific bullet on a piece of graph paper. If you can find 3 the same most exellent. Then my pressure test is the window of where 2 of those 3 sources agree. Cuts off the top and bottom end in most cases. Bullets with the same weight, material and close bearing surface can be used in the data set if you can only find 1 or two with the exact bullet. In 308 your not scrambling for data. If I was home I would send you the hornaday book data.

Another_Kelley said:

Ohhhh, so you're saying the op WAS on the right track by sourcing THREE different companies for his starting point. Because your first post didn't exactly read like a 'kind reminder'... but I'm totally over it, and I certainly hope there isn't any 'craws' in your neck region.

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dcloco said:

So....a gent with 17 posts is asking advice about reloading.

My kind reminder to not use old/dated reloading info puts a craw in your neck?

OP actually sourced THREE different companies, but referred to two as online.

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Guys remember it's very difficult to put intonation in our written messages.
I'm pretty sure y'all read more into each other's posts than was meant.

Varminterror said:

Do you average the speed limits on interstate and highways?

Data for one bullet often doesn’t apply to another, for good reason, even despite equivalent weight.

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I advised averaging 3 close starting and stop loads as has been advised on this site in the past. I stand by what I said and the op also mentioned he will be working the load development up which tells me he at least has a clue what he is doing and just wants to be safe and make sure he is headed in the right direction so he doesn’t get hurt or blow up anything.

As far as my driving, those numbers on the signs are just suggestions, not unlike some of the numbers in the loading manuals. You have to understand the dangers, decide to take the risks, and still realize the folks that posted the numbers are much smarter than you are. Sometimes you can go a little over and get away with it, sometimes you can go a little under and get away with it, and most times you just need to stay within the posted numbers or bad things will happen. Sometimes tragically.

bullseye308 said:

realize the folks that posted the numbers are much smarter than you are.

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This - which is why it’s not terribly smart to average data from one bullet, specific to it, with data from non-applicable bullets.

I personally do not ever use Hornady load data as my primary source and I load a lot of Hornady bullets. Their data is always very conservative and has never produced the best results. I tend to rely most heavily on the powder manufacturers data.

Vloc1987 said:

Hornady started out their starting grains at 32.6 grains and max was at 44.0 gr

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I can't imagine what orifice they pulled that starting load out of. That is only 74% of their maximum which will have some people warning of "detonation."
The usual book starting load is 90% of the maximum which is purely arbitrary, there is nothing scientific about it. I started rifle reloading from the Speer manual, which shows three loads per powder+bullet. The middle load is right around 95% of the maximum and I never had any "pressure signs" starting there. Maybe I was lucky, but I was also shooting mostly Speer bullets in those days.

My last .308 loading was with Sierra bullets at slightly below Lyman maximum powder charge.
My NRA Master friend was trying to squeeze out the most "wind bucking" velocity and was considerably overloading to the point of short brass life. But he is a good enough shot to appreciate every little advantage and willing to pay for it

On the other hand, I tried to make .223 a Long Range rifle and was really pushing it. The maximum book load would not give the book velocity, so I went quant suff until I got the speed I needed.

If you start at the bottom and work up, none of the manufacturers reloading manuals will blow you up. Let your gun tell you where the max is but absolutely use the most conservative as a stop point.