The .270 Winchester - Tom River Explains...

Howa 9700 said:

If I may ask......having watched the video and waded through the thread.........I'm about to start loading for my Dad's old 270.....also a 700 BDL. Has killed a lot of deer over the years and none of them past 200 yards, and don't ever expect to. More like 100 yards for most of them. Every deer it has ever killed has been with factory ammo of one shade or another and always 130 gr or 150 grain bullets.

Bullets I have and plan to load are 130 gr Sierra Game Kings.......and/or 140 Gr Nosler Partitions. Powders I have to work with are IMR 4350 and a 4831, what I think will turn out to be H4831sc. What should my optimum velocity be?

Reason I"m asking is the confusion between soft or tough bullets and high or low velocity. I'm assuming mine are both soft bullets, so ought to be loading for the low end of velocity? If that means less recoil, that is even better knowing who my shooters are.

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Soooooo for comparison, the 120 custom lite factory fodder launches at 2700 iirc. And is deadly easily to 300 yds. As far as deer are concerned, the partition is built to run through both shoulders, turn around, shatter the hip, and then run halfway down the spine. At under 2900 I'd expect the sierra to run through both shoulders and stop under the far side. For lower recoil and accuracy, the 4831 will yield less than happy results in my experience, look for imr4166/4064 or h4895.
If you're close enough for a meet up I'd part with a lb of 4166 for a good cause. Roughly 45.5 gr with the sierra will have you downing deer and recoil of a .243 in an 8.5 lb gun with swell accuracy.

Gordon said:

The .378 Weatherby which had a tank brake and weighed 10 pounds scoped did that but it was the only rifle I truly hated .I shot a box of shells in about six months out of it, using every heavy recoil management available at the time and got rid of that Schultz and Larsen SOB !

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My 375 AI weighs 9 pounds 1 ounce scoped, loaded and slung and doesn’t wear a brake! With my present load, felt recoil is 59 ft/lbs. Not much fun to shoot 20+ rounds from the bench....doable, but your shoulder is a bit “tender” the next day!

Rifle fit has a tremendous effect on how the shooter perceives the recoil! memtb

I do still have 2 .375 Weatherbys, NOT the .378 ! Yes I still at 75 love the .375 and it is my go to elk and larger hunting rifle - at 75 ! Believe me the .378 is terrible ! The .375 weatherby or standard in a good fitting 9+ pound rifle is doable , for hunting , for me.

Ill stick to 270s at 2850 from my 8.25lb 375 Ruger.....those sound like a little too much fun for me....

horsey300 said:

Soooooo for comparison, the 120 custom lite factory fodder launches at 2700 iirc. And is deadly easily to 300 yds. As far as deer are concerned, the partition is built to run through both shoulders, turn around, shatter the hip, and then run halfway down the spine. At under 2900 I'd expect the sierra to run through both shoulders and stop under the far side. For lower recoil and accuracy, the 4831 will yield less than happy results in my experience, look for imr4166/4064 or h4895.
If you're close enough for a meet up I'd part with a lb of 4166 for a good cause. Roughly 45.5 gr with the sierra will have you downing deer and recoil of a .243 in an 8.5 lb gun with swell accuracy.

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Don't have the 4166, but do have the 4064, and load data for it for the 130 gr Sierra's and it is about 45 gr. If that makes it an easy, accurate shooter, that is a good place to be.

LoonWulf said:

Thats a nice rig!
I couldn't get the 150ablrs to stabilize in my 1-10 .270

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I live at almost 8,000ft and unit I hunt, DOW has range about same elevation. Range open June so wife and i go over do some fishing and I'll test loads and little higher place where locals test loads. I'm set up to load at the range so no big deal. I'm going to try that R-26 in 280AI also 284 on long action,.

sage5907 said:

My first high dollar hunting rifle was a 270Wby with a slim 24 inch barrel back in 1965. It would make circles over the eye if it wasn't held right. It never got me but it was a real laugh to seeing my friends shoot it. I always warned them before they fired but a warning is not like the real experience.

Finding the R-26 is some good luck. By any chance are you close to the Salida Gun Shop? I plan on going there in September because they always stock a lot of Nosler bullets, Lapua brass and powder.

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I appreciate the offer but archery starts Sept 2-30.

Tactical Lever said:

While the .270 might be flatter shooting, it falls decidedly behind the 30-06 in power at long distance. Just doesn't have as good a BC bullets available for it. Even trying to keep it "fair" by picking the same brand and style of bullets, the longer heavier bullets of the 30-06 beat it out in KE. If we measure momentum, which is probably a better indicator, the gap widens.

No doubt the .270 enjoyed some popularity. But I believe the 30-30 has the crown. 30 more years in the field, and in 2015 was 4th in ammo sales in the U.S.

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You may have overlooked the point i was making about the 270 compared to the 30-06. Steel at long distance doesnt care about energy for one. Also less drag and effect from wind to blow it around means it would have faired better at long range. Especially if it had the support the 30-06 had with match bullets and barrels with a faster twist. After all the twist is what would have allowed the ability to shoot the heavier bullets you mention as a comparison.

There were 2 parts in my post. One was referring to th 30-06 being the chosen cartridge at long range competition and how if the aforementiontioned were changed the 270 would have faired better for that role.

The other was referring to its capability to take game and how many people used it for deer. I wasn't using the 270 as a hunting rifle comparison to the 30-06.

If you look at the history of the long range shooting competitions from that time period and follow it forward you will see that smaller calibers came in and were destroying things like the 30-06 because of their ability to buck wind and shoot flatter.

As far as energy at long ranges, if your talking about 1,000 yards plus the lower drag and ability to save energy has the 270 same weight bullets moving as fast and faster beyond 1000 than a 30-06 at those distances. Using a ballistics calculator and compare the same bullet like a matchking or gamekind same weight with say the fastest loads in each. If we are talking apples to apples. And thats without changing the twist rate to shoot heavier bullets.

Speaking of twist rates, the 260 rem, If it had a 1/8 twist and heavy bullets it would have been a shoe in a long time ago for long range competition. Ballistically it would have been a 6.5 creedmoor back then. Even without the heavy bullets the 260 is a competitor.

Not sure whether your mention of the 30-30 sales in ammo was saying it outpaced the 270 or not in animals or deer taken. Probably did. Without data it would be hard to prove but there is enough data for a theory. The 270 is a lot more popular cartridge outside of the us and the 30-30 is mostly found in a lever action which is mostly popular in the US. If your talking US only then i would guess that the 30-30 has taken more deer. Just cartridge comparison I wouldnt say it was better at it than a 270.

Howa 9700 said:

Don't have the 4166, but do have the 4064, and load data for it for the 130 gr Sierra's and it is about 45 gr. If that makes it an easy, accurate shooter, that is a good place to be.

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That'll do it!
ETA let us know how this project comes along!!!

The conversation on powders that work best in the 270 Winchester led me to take a look at the burn rate table in the Berger manual. It so happens that the burn rate for IMR 4831 is about the same as R-19. The burn rate for H4831 and H4831sc is closer to the burn rate of R-22. I have never used H4831 and I didn't realize that it was slower than IMR 4831. I can see why it takes more grains of H4831 to equal the velocity of IMR 4831.

Having had several 280s and 270s over the years, a few observations.

If you don’t hand load, then the 270 all day long.

Those that *do* know that the 270 will do it all day long velocity-wise in a 22” pipe what will take the 280 24” of pipe. If they haven’t figured that out, they haven’t worked with enough guns.

Slight edge to the 280 on bullet selection - but the 270 has more than enough to get ‘r done. I just love when the 280 fanclub starts throwing out heavy bullet weights like the 162-175gr .... just go 7Mag, please, and leave us standard action folks alone.

The 280 is at its best with 140-150gr bullets. The 270 with 130-150gr bullets. Just not enough to get excited and frazzled over the difference.

Both are equally easy to load for, so that’s a tie. Pick the one you like and be happy.

I am content at my age with my 22” Model 70 270. It will do all I ever need in life with 130-150 grain bullets, from coyotes to bear and elk and anything in between.

Wreck-n-Crew said:

You may have overlooked the point i was making about the 270 compared to the 30-06. Steel at long distance doesnt care about energy for one. Also less drag and effect from wind to blow it around means it would have faired better at long range. Especially if it had the support the 30-06 had with match bullets and barrels with a faster twist. After all the twist is what would have allowed the ability to shoot the heavier bullets you mention as a comparison.

There were 2 parts in my post. One was referring to th 30-06 being the chosen cartridge at long range competition and how if the aforementiontioned were changed the 270 would have faired better for that role.

The other was referring to its capability to take game and how many people used it for deer. I wasn't using the 270 as a hunting rifle comparison to the 30-06.

If you look at the history of the long range shooting competitions from that time period and follow it forward you will see that smaller calibers came in and were destroying things like the 30-06 because of their ability to buck wind and shoot flatter.

As far as energy at long ranges, if your talking about 1,000 yards plus the lower drag and ability to save energy has the 270 same weight bullets moving as fast and faster beyond 1000 than a 30-06 at those distances. Using a ballistics calculator and compare the same bullet like a matchking or gamekind same weight with say the fastest loads in each. If we are talking apples to apples. And thats without changing the twist rate to shoot heavier bullets.

Speaking of twist rates, the 260 rem, If it had a 1/8 twist and heavy bullets it would have been a shoe in a long time ago for long range competition. Ballistically it would have been a 6.5 creedmoor back then. Even without the heavy bullets the 260 is a competitor.

Not sure whether your mention of the 30-30 sales in ammo was saying it outpaced the 270 or not in animals or deer taken. Probably did. Without data it would be hard to prove but there is enough data for a theory. The 270 is a lot more popular cartridge outside of the us and the 30-30 is mostly found in a lever action which is mostly popular in the US. If your talking US only then i would guess that the 30-30 has taken more deer. Just cartridge comparison I wouldnt say it was better at it than a 270.

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Sorry didn't see this 'til now.

Wasn't referencing shooting steel, just your assertion that the .270 has more long range power and is flatter shooting. It is flatter shooting, but it does not have the same punch as a 30-06 at any range. Of course I'm not comparing bullets of the same weight, because it makes no sense for efficiency. I wouldn't compare a .30 cal to a .40 cal with the same weight bullets either.

Until somewhat recently (in gun years), there wasn't much for good long range .277 bullets, and I don't believe I saw the good ones go past 130 gr. Now there is a bit more with heavier offerings going up to 150, which levels the playing field somewhat.

For 30-06, I'd be looking to load it with 180-200 gr. as it seems to be the sweet spot with good speed and high BC bullets.

At really long range with the best bullets for each cartridge the 30-06 at 1000 yards has almost (but not quite) caught up to the .270's speed, but with about 35% more bullet it's edged it in fpe, and carrying about 30% more momentum which is a more useful measure for on game performance.

I responded with ammo sales as a measure of popularity, and factoring in it's high sales and a few decade head start, I am guessing that the 30-30 has killed more deer. But you may have a point about other countries.

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