The Paradox.

Weapon and mindset are both equally important. Skill is a distant second. Novice gun users successfully defend themselves, their families and their homes all the time, all over the country.

Yes, more skill is always better, but frankly most gun owners don't have the time or inclination to train like an IPSC master. This does not make them negligent.

JohnKSa said:

The weapon is everything. What good are skill and determination if the weapon does not work?

Skill is everything. What good is a weapon that can not be wielded effectively? What good is determination without ability?

Mindset is everything. What good is a weapon without the determination to wield it? What good is skill if there is no will to put it into action?

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I'm with Jeff on this. This isn't a paradox, except to people who think in absolutes.

Life is holistic. To paraphrase from Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, "holistic" is "the principle of the interconnectedness of all things".

You cannot separate weapon, skill, and mindset into discrete, standalone principles with respect to self-defense. A Venn Diagram of these three items is not three separate, non-overlapping circles. The circles may vary in size, changing the amount of influence within the overlapping region, but they are not totally independent of each other.

I’m still a proponent of mindset, skill set, toolset (weapon) in that order.

I believe you have to have some skill, even a tiny amount, to be able to use a weapon.

I’m sure the skill could be a byproduct of both the mindset and the weapon. But to wield the weapon takes some amount of skill no matter how small.

JohnKSa said:

The weapon is everything. What good are skill and determination if the weapon does not work?

Skill is everything. What good is a weapon that can not be wielded effectively? What good is determination without ability?

Mindset is everything. What good is a weapon without the determination to wield it? What good is skill if there is no will to put it into action?

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You forgot one, "situational awareness", usually prevents the others from being needed. I do agree you need all three, just as a tripod needs all three legs.

And what of the opponent? His skill, weapons, and determination will determine how much of the same will be required to defeat him. One doesn't have the luxury of knowing who they will face so it's best to be prepared for whatever situation comes your way but the fact is in most cases gun owners successfully defend themselves all the time with little to no training or skill and dirty mediocre weapons.

earlthegoat2 said:

I’m still a proponent of mindset, skill set, toolset (weapon) in that order.

I believe you have to have some skill, even a tiny amount, to be able to use a weapon.

I’m sure the skill could be a byproduct of both the mindset and the weapon. But to wield the weapon takes some amount of skill no matter how small.

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Well said! Or, as The Gunslinger said "Aim with your eye, shoot with your mind, kill with your heart."

LNK said:

You forgot one, "situational awareness", usually prevents the others from being needed. I do agree you need all three, just as a tripod needs all three legs.

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I would say situational awareness is part of mindset.

shafter said:

And what of the opponent? His skill, weapons, and determination will determine how much of the same will be required to defeat him. One doesn't have the luxury of knowing who they will face so it's best to be prepared for whatever situation comes your way but the fact is in most cases gun owners successfully defend themselves all the time with little to no training or skill and dirty mediocre weapons.

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Fortunately, most attackers have little or no training or skill, and dirty, mediocre weapons.

The easiest part is selecting the weapon.

Your mind is your most import weapon, everything else is an accessory.

The weapon is an accessory the mind is the most important thing.


Love this video, it is a great example of someone thinking on their feet and protecting themselves with a fairly unlikely weapon. Getting too dependent on one weapon even one as optimal as a modern firearm can blind you to other options when you might not have a firearm at hand.

A well educated (not strictly book educated) open mind, aware of its surroundings, both for threats and dangers as well as escape routes, and impromptu assets is the most import self-defense skill you can have. Works on bad-guys, bad-critters, and most all other potential calamities.

Mindset-Skillset-Toolkit: In that order.

My family's encounter this past Labor Day can show the above pattern.

While driving through a green light intersection that I have been passing through regularly my entire life, a vagrant individual on a BMX decided to cut directly in front of us, forcing simultaneous brake slam, hard left turn and horn application to avoid running him over. He did not take kindly to this check of his entitlement, and immediately began pounding on the windows and side of our car, screaming vulgarities at my kids. I pulled forward slowly, and he continued his assault. My concern was that I didn't want to run over his foot, but after the extended episode, we just drove away to call 911, leaving him trying to chase us on a bike and film at the same time. The mindset of "break contact" was foremost on my mind, understanding we were multiple steps away from a legitimate deadly force encounter.

While this was occuring, I was dual processing the location of my carry gun on my person, and how I could engage, if necessary. I am able to draw relatively effectively from a seated position. I have been regularly shooting and training with compact guns, like a J-frame, since I was about 16, so fundamental skill-set was OK. Confidence that you have the capability to shoot is important.

For my toolkit that day, I had a 638 in a front pocket holster loaded with 110 gr Silvertips. At no point did the "I wish I had a bigger, different or higher capacity gun" enter my mind.

In the end, this encounter was a nothing burger- just a few calls to the PD for discussion and follow-up past the initial 911 notification. I had ZERO desire to be a lead story on CNN, and wanted to do everything possible to avoid this escalating into a shooting scenario- "White family runs down BIPOC cyclist with their SUV and shoots him". I do have to wonder, if the individual realized he was starting to check-off boxes that could lead to his demise. Probably not, just an entitled thug.

LNK said:

You forgot one, "situational awareness", usually prevents the others from being needed. I do agree you need all three, just as a tripod needs all three legs.

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Part of mindset.

I agree with earlthegoat2, mindset, skill set, tool set.

If your head isn't in the game, you will lose. The mind is the weapon, everything else is tools. Have the presence of mind to be aware of the tools, obvious (gun) or not (screwdriver), around you at all times.

You have to know how to use those tools. That's the onus on the tool user. I set out to learn everything I could about every gun I could because I lacked the knowledge of how a revolver worked. I was 12, but shot a hole in the floor because I didn't know the cylinder release wasn't the safety. I have been working on that constantly since then.

As FL-NC said, the easiest part is choosing the tools.

mcb said:

The weapon is an accessory the mind is the most important thing.


Love this video, it is a great example of someone thinking on their feet and protecting themselves with a fairly unlikely weapon. Getting too dependent on one weapon even one as optimal as a modern firearm can blind you to other options when you might not have a firearm at hand.

A well educated (not strictly book educated) open mind, aware of its surroundings, both for threats and dangers as well as escape routes, and impromptu assets is the most import self-defense skill you can have. Works on bad-guys, bad-critters, and most all other potential calamities.

Click to expand...

This is a great example of a thread I started about "Unconventional Weapons" (https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/unconventional-weapons.889591/) and why it is important to think on your feet and use what is handy.

Mind, skill, gear.

Gear comes out of a box, so to speak. Easiest part of the group to address in the respect of being able to buy it as an item (or items). Choose good quality gear suitable for your envisioned tasks. Know how to maintain it, safely store it, etc. Once the gear part is out of the way comes the harder parts ...

Mindset includes knowledge and how we apply it to our interaction with the world around us, and has also been described as the interpretative process we use to tell us what's going on around us. It can also include - and be affected by - individual beliefs. Naturally, this can also encompass personal assumptions and feelings. Might become slippery ground. If the knowledge part doesn't include understanding the laws of wherever you are, that might become a huge unwelcome hole in your preparations.

Skillset? Well, that includes understanding your gear, for one thing, and how to safely, properly and effectively use it under the range of conditions reasonably envisioned. Plenty of "oops" territory to ignore, overlook or simply not anticipate. If your skillset is going to need to be adequate to your needs, you better hope you understand your needs.

Arrange your emphasis on these things and prioritize them however you feel is prudent and reasonable for your needs. Consider the consequences of ignoring critical aspects of all of them.

You buy the gear ... and you can buy access to skillset development (leaving you with the challenging conundrum of skillset maintenance to address) ... but mindset is probably one of those intangibles in life. What's it mean to you?

Hell, if I had the answers, I'd write a book.

And don't be surprised if acquiring an evolving skillset makes you change your mind about gear selection at some point down the road.

It's just gear. If it requires change later on, remember that new gear comes out of a box.

I don't see a paradox, I see a problem with the suppositions being made. May as well just add "Luck is everything."

I would only add to the hierarchy;
Mindset, Tactics, Skill, Weapon.

Mindset -- the will to fight back.
Tactics -- a plan to fight back.
Skill -- the ability to fight back.
Weapon -- what you choose to use to fight back.
I remember a quote from Clint Smith some time ago that went something like this.
"If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!"

Seems pretty clear to me. Anyway, that's just me.

JohnKSa said:

Each category really is everything--because every one of them can, all by itself, make the difference between losing everything and surviving.

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i disagree (surprise!). lose your gun and you automatically lose your skillset and the tactics that go along with that weapon. once you lose your mind (set), you have given up and the fight is over and you have lost. if you don't have the sense (mindset) to change tactics, you lose the fight.

so i think having the ability to go to plan b, c, etc., in the middle of a stressful situation is paramount. going to plan b, or c, etc., under stress means never losing your mind (set). that thing between your ears (mind) is the only thing that cannot be taken from you (unless you let it), so put your mind under stress and train to relieve that stress. train to "handle the situation".

i agree with that rowdy youtuber that always says, "never give up the fight".

murf

murf said:

i disagree (surprise!). lose your gun and you automatically lose your skillset and the tactics that go along with that weapon. once you lose your mind (set), you have given up and the fight is over and you have lost. if you don't have the sense (mindset) to change tactics, you lose the fight.

so i think having the ability to go to plan b, c, etc., in the middle of a stressful situation is paramount. going to plan b, or c, etc., under stress means never losing your mind (set). that thing between your ears (mind) is the only thing that cannot be taken from you (unless you let it), so put your mind under stress and train to relieve that stress. train to "handle the situation".

i agree with that rowdy youtuber that always says, "never give up the fight".

murf

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Not really.

If you lose your gun, you still retain your skillset and tactics, you just have to adapt to the situation. Skillset and tactics are tools...land like the tools in one's tool box, many can be adapted to alternate uses than that which they were intentionally designed for.

And there are plenty of examples of people who didn't have "the mindset" who have survived a fight. Fascinatingly, most people don't realize how incredibly difficult it is for a human being to intentionally kill another human being. It takes either developing a mindset which allows you to do so under certain circumstances or moments of incredible stress.

"Never give up the fight"...a good frame of mind.

RetiredUSNChief said:

intentionally kill another human being

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a small list including sociopaths, psychopaths and those trained to do so (albeit unwillingly).

RetiredUSNChief said:

It takes either developing a mindset which allows you to do so under certain circumstances or moments of incredible stress.

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i would not consider that intentional. i agree about killing being incredibly difficult. i would think, for the most part, killing is an accident of self defense.

RetiredUSNChief said:

If you lose your gun, you still retain your skillset and tactics,

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that is the essence of what i am trying to communicate. just don't lose your mind (keep your cool under stress). the mindset needs to be trained along with the skills and tactics, imo.

murf

murf said:

a small list including sociopaths, psychopaths and those trained to do so (albeit unwillingly).

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Indeed.

Socio/psychopaths are a given in this. But people outside this have to be brought up to it in order to overcome the difficulty in deliberately committing homocide.

Invariably, tactics which succeed in doing so involve making the victims/enemies/subjects less-than-human in some way or other. This holds true for the military, for gang members, for police, etc.

Distance separates people from the reality of killing another human being, which is why it's inherently easier to kill at a distance.

Thinking of your adversary as a dog, pig, or other animal that is less-than-human enables people to sidestep that difficulty as well.

Thinking of your adversary as an inanimate object, like simply a target, is another way.

Even building up hot emotional feelings enables people to think of their adversaries as beneath themselves for this purpose.


Most of the rest of the population can only intentionally kill another human being under extreme conditions, because they haven't been trained or indoctrinated with methodology which would make them do otherwise.

Shooting at me would be reason enough, though I've had three instances where people have done so and I didn't shoot; two aiming at game, (well one was a deer-the other was a bluejay!) and one shooting at the duck boat "because we took 'his' spot." My dad and I ducked under the gunwales, he tossed me a 5pk. of 00Buck from the ammo can (as a peace officer he could keep them in his ammo box, as well his Glock) we both loaded up and he said "If he shoots at us again, sink his canoe!"

"Sink his canoe!" Expecting to get shot at but keeping ROE in mind. OK. My faith in WI police is now reaffirmed.

Years ago, in Jr. High, a WW2 veteran who occasionally did substitute work was subbing my class. He told us a story of how these guys in a motorboat would come close to rowboats and turn away at the last moment, letting their wave capsize the rowboats. He said he put his 30.30 rifle into his boat and went out fishing. According to him they came at him but he pointed his rifle at them and they turned away immediately, their wake not a concern for him.

I liked that old guy. He had the "linebacker" body. Huge build (not fat, even in his 60's) and no neck whatsoever. He was a veteran of the Battle of the Bulge. I wish he had told us more stories.