Trophy hunting is what saved American wildlife from extinction.

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You can't throw a towel in the ocean without hitting a humpback whale now. They're all over the place. Same for sea turtles. I'm actually tired of seeing sea turtles on every dive.

Curtailing hunting did wonders for them. Sadly, there has to be reasonable limits on hunting and fishing.

Wish white tailed deer were open season year round in Ohio though. Hate those things. I think my neighbor shoots them year round on his property. Good. We have 20X too many.

Nobody seems to hunt turkey's anymore. I have a flock of at least 50 of them that cross my lawn chirping like baby birds, every couple of weeks. They don't hurt anything though. And look like cool little velociraptors.
 
It's been my experience that many, if not most, non-hunters believe "trophy hunting" involves killing the animal with the biggest horns, cutting off the head, and leaving the rest to rot. I don't know if it's possible to change that opinion - today's news media obviously wouldn't be interested, and places like Twitter and Facebook are just awful for passing along any but the least complicated ideas. I suspect that trophy hunters may be better off just changing the name, rather than attempting to rehabilitate it.
 
touchy-feely type regs in my town are allowing the local forest rat population to explode. I have three fawns and 2 doe bedding on my property currently and I can do nothing about it other than sic my little lap dog at them. I wish they'd issue in-town archery permits. They've destroyed my garden and crap all over my lawn and eat my apples and tear up my flowerbeds. These are city deer and there's no way to control them other than when you hit them with your car.
 
B&C supports your style of hunting 100%. You passed up lesser bucks on your limited draw tags because you were waiting to shoot a bigger more mature buck, AKA “trophy hunting”. That’s the very definition of the type of hunting B&C supports. Your discipline on not shooting an immature buck and supporting herd health is exactly what we’ve been discussing in this thread.

I understand hunting B &C supports. They also support non hunter having Record book. Sure it honors the animals but it's not about hunting.
 
I understand hunting B &C supports. They also support non hunter having Record book. Sure it honors the animals but it's not about hunting.

I’m having a hard time understanding your post. “They also support non hunter having record book.” Are you referring to their acceptance of scored sheds?
 
But... won’t taking the biggest deer result in the removal of the biggest genes from the breeding stock?

If I’m not looking for a mount, I’m after something small, so next year’s fawns will be bigger.
The older bucks have already passed their genes on. A 7 year old has been breeding for 5 or 6 years and God only knows how many does that he has bred.
 
The older bucks have already passed their genes on. A 7 year old has been breeding for 5 or 6 years and God only knows how many does that he has bred.
....and his genes have been passed on since his first born doe/buck fawn. A typical buck to doe ratio is 5 to 1. A 7 year old buck probably has bred 50 does or more in his lifetime. He has sons breeding does and daughters bearing fawns. The question is, what genes is that buck passing down other than big antlers? That's the only reason he has been allowed to live. In normal animal husbandry, you selectively breed for more than one trait. You not only know the sire's strengths or positive genes, but his negative traits. How do we know if that buck with nice horn we are passing on for 6 years is not throwing negative traits like poor eyesight, poor sense of smell or hearing? How do we know he is not producing offspring with bad hips or club feet? We don't. But it don't matter if he can not see, smell or hear the predator pursuing him(Human or other), much less if he can outrun it. He may be passing on genes that make his offspring more susceptible to disease, poor health and birth defects. Still, all in all, that might make it easier to harvest his horn.

I do not have a problem with letting little bucks walk. I do it all the time. Just as I give those with more potential, more time to mature. But I do wonder what this new infatuation with big horn and indiscriminate breeding based on horn size will do for the average deer herd in the wild. While on deer farms and high fence ranches, the availability to bring in other big horned deer to breed will help negate negative gene traits, in the wild we do not have that option. We are not really letting the process of natural selection do what it does. Just as letting deer walk after it makes a major mistake dumbs down the herd. One only has to watch a deer hunting show on T.V. and watch how a mature bucks looks at the hunter with little or no alarm before it is shot. It is not the skill of the hunter, but the experience of the buck that has safely walked by a human at short range for 6 years without the smallest inkling of a threat....till he has finally been judged big enough to shoot. Used to be big bucks only got big in the wild, because they were smart. They made a mistake early in life and they usually paid the ultimate price. Now, as long as they have potential and their home range is within property hunted by trophy hunters, they don't have to be smart. They just have to be quick to the baitpile or mineral lick so they can make the most of their potential. Because we all know, it is only the size of the horn that makes a true trophy.

The old adage, what came first, the chicken or the egg can be asked about B&C and the overall conservation movement in America. Lots of animals in the country that are not deemed "trophy" animals that have propagated mainly because of conservation, and not because they are potential B&C record book animals. The Passenger Pigeon went extinct and the American Bison almost went extinct in the same time frame as the B&C inception. Many believe they were what aroused the public interest in the "new" conservation movement. It also is in the same time frame as when Teddy signed the Antiquities Act and created the USFS, both to preserve and conserve habitat that was also being raped by greed. IOWs, IMHO, while Trophy Hunting may have helped some American Wildlife, to make the general statement it is what saved all of American Wildlife from extinction is questionable.

Again, just my humble opinion.
 
....and his genes have been passed on since his first born doe/buck fawn. A typical buck to doe ratio is 5 to 1. A 7 year old buck probably has bred 50 does or more in his lifetime. He has sons breeding does and daughters bearing fawns. The question is, what genes is that buck passing down other than big antlers? That's the only reason he has been allowed to live. In normal animal husbandry, you selectively breed for more than one trait. You not only know the sire's strengths or positive genes, but his negative traits. How do we know if that buck with nice horn we are passing on for 6 years is not throwing negative traits like poor eyesight, poor sense of smell or hearing? How do we know he is not producing offspring with bad hips or club feet? We don't. But it don't matter if he can not see, smell or hear the predator pursuing him(Human or other), much less if he can outrun it. He may be passing on genes that make his offspring more susceptible to disease, poor health and birth defects. Still, all in all, that might make it easier to harvest his horn.

I do not have a problem with letting little bucks walk. I do it all the time. Just as I give those with more potential, more time to mature. But I do wonder what this new infatuation with big horn and indiscriminate breeding based on horn size will do for the average deer herd in the wild. While on deer farms and high fence ranches, the availability to bring in other big horned deer to breed will help negate negative gene traits, in the wild we do not have that option. We are not really letting the process of natural selection do what it does. Just as letting deer walk after it makes a major mistake dumbs down the herd. One only has to watch a deer hunting show on T.V. and watch how a mature bucks looks at the hunter with little or no alarm before it is shot. It is not the skill of the hunter, but the experience of the buck that has safely walked by a human at short range for 6 years without the smallest inkling of a threat....till he has finally been judged big enough to shoot. Used to be big bucks only got big in the wild, because they were smart. They made a mistake early in life and they usually paid the ultimate price. Now, as long as they have potential and their home range is within property hunted by trophy hunters, they don't have to be smart. They just have to be quick to the baitpile or mineral lick so they can make the most of their potential. Because we all know, it is only the size of the horn that makes a true trophy.

The old adage, what came first, the chicken or the egg can be asked about B&C and the overall conservation movement in America. Lots of animals in the country that are not deemed "trophy" animals that have propagated mainly because of conservation, and not because they are potential B&C record book animals. The Passenger Pigeon went extinct and the American Bison almost went extinct in the same time frame as the B&C inception. Many believe they were what aroused the public interest in the "new" conservation movement. It also is in the same time frame as when Teddy signed the Antiquities Act and created the USFS, both to preserve and conserve habitat that was also being raped by greed. IOWs, IMHO, while Trophy Hunting may have helped some American Wildlife, to make the general statement it is what saved all of American Wildlife from extinction is questionable.

Again, just my humble opinion.

As I stated in the body of my OP and several posts after. It was B&C members who developed the 7 pillars of the North American Management system of wildlife conservation. And that is the system we use today, and of course the details and procedures have morphed over the years. And it absolutely was the beginnings of the movement that has been so successful today. I keep reading here it was the game laws, the game wardens, limited seasons, etc etc. YES IT WAS and the founding members of the B&C club are the people who put all that into play.

Buck,
As an ardent and knowledgeable outdoorsman I’m sure you are familiar with the the seven pillars of the North American Model of wildlife management that USA and Canada have been using since the late 1800’s right?
 
As I stated in the body of my OP and several posts after. It was B&C members who developed the 7 pillars of the North American Management system of wildlife conservation. And that is the system we use today, and of course the details and procedures have morphed over the years. And it absolutely was the beginnings of the movement that has been so successful today. I keep reading here it was the game laws, the game wardens, limited seasons, etc etc. YES IT WAS and the founding members of the B&C club are the people who put all that into play.

Buck,
As an ardent and knowledgeable outdoorsman I’m sure you are familiar with the the seven pillars of the North American Model of wildlife management that USA and Canada have been using since the late 1800’s right?

Buck,
Since you mentioned the passenger pigeon and the buffalo. Two species that were directly responsible for the formation of the B&C club and its management goals:

https://www.fishwildlife.org/landing/north-american-model-wildlife-conservation


In the United States and Canada, the Model operates on seven interdependent principles:

  1. Wildlife resources are conserved and held in trust for all citizens.
  2. Commerce in dead wildlife is eliminated.
  3. Wildlife is allocated according to democratic rule of law.
  4. Wildlife may only be killed for a legitimate, non-frivolous purpose.
  5. Wildlife is an international resource.
  6. Every person has an equal opportunity under the law to participate in hunting and fishing.
  7. Scientific management is the proper means for wildlife conservation.
 
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Human blood was part of the cost as well. Watched a PBS show here in Colorado about the first game wardens. More than one shoot out happened when they tried to enforce new game laws.
 
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