AJC1
Member
I'm all about does it fit in a lever gun, but there are zero wide open spaces. If 45 colt wont kill it 45-70 will. I would love a 454 but that's not in wide use yet.
As alread stated, fits and was designed for the AR-15 platform
Meet straight-wall cartridge requirements in locals with that restriction
Delivers significantly more energy in suppressed subsonic application.
I am 45, and spent enough time in the field with an AR-platform for Uncle Sam that the last thing I want to do is use one for big game hunting. I really don't get the fascination with the whole "it fits in an AR" fetish.
Don't tell me how to spend my weekends!! (I love 270, I think it's very potent hunting ammo and holds up even next to the newfangled stuff today. A Noreen BN36X3 in 270 and 30-06 is my dream rifle)I have noticed through the ammopocalypse of 20-21 that the weird stuff like 350 Legend and stuff like that seemed to stay on the shelf a bit longer than all the others... However, in the past couple weeks, I have noticed at Cabela's and the Academy's in OKC they have had all kinds of 9mm, 45acp, 40SW, 223 and 308 and 6/6.5 Creed and all kinds of 12/20/410 ammo too. It's crazy awesome to see people finally stop panic hoarding! So now it's a matter of time before I can walk in to a LGS at 5pm on a Saturday and actually see ammo on their shelves.Here in Ohio at least the change in firearms used for deer hunting is do to a change in regulations. We are no longer limited to shotguns, which has caused an explosion in sales of straight wall cartridge guns that are approved for deer.
Really regulations here meant that those 30-06, .270's etc never were that popular to begin with. Sure, people owned them but never really had a reason to shoot them other than punching paper. The .223, .22-250, even .22 hornet and .22 mag were much more popular for coyote and ground hogs but you didn't see too many people go out and shoot a .270 just for fun.
The factories started pumping out mass amounts of the most popular rounds not taking down machines for caliber shifts. This increases their production volume and increases profit, due to losses in down time. They will do their best to maximize profits and protect their largest customer base.Don't tell me how to spend my weekends!! (I love 270, I think it's very potent hunting ammo and holds up even next to the newfangled stuff today. A Noreen BN36X3 in 270 and 30-06 is my dream rifle)I have noticed through the ammopocalypse of 20-21 that the weird stuff like 350 Legend and stuff like that seemed to stay on the shelf a bit longer than all the others... However, in the past couple weeks, I have noticed at Cabela's and the Academy's in OKC they have had all kinds of 9mm, 45acp, 40SW, 223 and 308 and 6/6.5 Creed and all kinds of 12/20/410 ammo too. It's crazy awesome to see people finally stop panic hoarding! So now it's a matter of time before I can walk in to a LGS at 5pm on a Saturday and actually see ammo on their shelves.
... The AR-15 gets so much more interesting chambered in anything else.
That straight wall thing. Always forget about that being in Missouri. See, that’s why I asked! Does anybody make factory loaded sub sonic 350 ammo?
I am 45, and spent enough time in the field with an AR-platform for Uncle Sam that the last thing I want to do is use one for big game hunting. I really don't get the fascination with the whole "it fits in an AR" fetish.
I have to disagree, I believe there certainly would be people carrying those chamberings.....I used a 6 shot ADL in .223 for deer, and my mini-14 rarely had more than its factory 5rnd mag fitted. My 300aac was a 5 shot rotary, my .350 legend AR was given away and will be replaced with a 5 shot bolt action. My Grendel was a 3 shot after I lopped its mag, and will be replaced with another bolt action ARC or Grendel when I can find one I want.223, .300 BO, .350 Legend, 450 Bushmaster, et al.? Of course not,
Simple, large capacity magazines in a semi-auto rifle. That is by and large todays litmus test for most all firearms; How many rounds will it hold and how fast can I reload? Think about it- If big game hunters were limited to a bolt action rifle with a 5-round internal magazine, does anyone really think they'd carry said rifles chambered in .223, .300 BO, .350 Legend, 450 Bushmaster, et al.? Of course not, there'd be no point when, without changing anything about the rifle, they could have them chambered in more powerful, flatter shooting cartridges.
35W
Simple, large capacity magazines in a semi-auto rifle. That is by and large todays litmus test for most all firearms; How many rounds will it hold and how fast can I reload? Think about it- If big game hunters were limited to a bolt action rifle with a 5-round internal magazine, does anyone really think they'd carry said rifles chambered in .223, .300 BO, .350 Legend, 450 Bushmaster, et al.? Of course not, there'd be no point when, without changing anything about the rifle, they could have them chambered in more powerful, flatter shooting cartridges.
35W
Something else to consider, especially with the big bores, is that the standard AR15s bolt is fragile compared to a full size modern turnbolt. You stick a 450 bushmaster, 50 beowulf, or .458 socom in a full size bolt gun and your limited by the strength of the case.
That gives you some pretty serious capacity to play with in a short action rifle.
With there always being the possibility of moose and bear, I don't ever see the ar platform being a viable hunting gun where im from. “Magnumitus” is still going strong here. Ive run into a few guys using ar’s for caribou though. Im on the .270 or 30-06 band wagon, .375 if i go to montague or kodiak.
Around here not so much interest in 6.5 Grendel but interest in 6.8 SPC is picking up.Seeing a shift. Not universal but still large numbers I see the younger hunters going towards the AR platform (5.56/350 Legend/450 Bushmaster/300 BLK/6.5 Grendel) and 6.5CR over the older calibers. Thus those cartridges that are nearly 100 years old are harder to find. .270, .243, .30-30, .30-06 have not had the demand that they had when we Boomers where in our 20s and 30s..
Also here in Indiana we have seen a huge shift in hunting as modern firearms have been allowed. Fewer slug guns for deer and more 6.5CR, 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster. I see little demand for the T/C Encore lines these days as hunters now use AR platforms or bolt guns.
Simple, large capacity magazines in a semi-auto rifle. That is by and large todays litmus test for most all firearms; How many rounds will it hold and how fast can I reload? Think about it- If big game hunters were limited to a bolt action rifle with a 5-round internal magazine, does anyone really think they'd carry said rifles chambered in .223, .300 BO, .350 Legend, 450 Bushmaster, et al.? Of course not, there'd be no point when, without changing anything about the rifle, they could have them chambered in more powerful, flatter shooting cartridges.
35W
With current AR magazine it is hard to get more than 7 rds of 450 Bushmaster to feed reliably. Most 450 Bushmasters ship with 5 rd magazines. My two hunting AR are in 450 Bushmaster and 30 Remington AR and I use 4rd magazines. The 450 Bushmaster in a bolt gun is very popular especially in locals with straight-wall limitations and given the performance increase you can realize as a handloaded. Even 458 SOCOM that is more magazine friendly tops out at about 12-13 rds in a 30 rd 556 magazine. Capacity is certainly an asset for some AR applications and cartridges but with the big bore AR cartridges capacity is not really one of them.
Exactly, 450 Bushmaster and 458 SOCOM are both limited to 38.5 ksi and 35 ksi respectively due to the bolt strength issues. Look at the wildcat 45 Raptor (built on the AR-10 and operating it 62 ksi) or what others are doing with 450 Bushmaster in Bolt Guns and the performance increase is eye opening. The bolt guns mostly being built on short actions lets reloaders load 450 BM longer then SAAMI spec and run the pressure up over SAAMI spec safely.
I would hunting anything in North America with an AR in 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM or 50 Beowulf. With properly chosen ammo those three cartridges from an AR can safely take any North America game as modest ranges. The doe in my picture earlier in the thread was shot length wise. Bullet went in about 4 inches behind her ear in the neck. the bullet broke the neck, two ribs going into the body cavity and exited just in front of her hind legs through her abdomen. I found the bullet two week later with my metal detector and it had penetrated another foot or so of hard Tennessee chert rock filled dirt. The bullet still retain 95% weight. I would not feel under-gunned with that load against anything in North America.
View attachment 1014295
I saw some sales numbers a a couple of years ago. In bolt rifles the 6.5 CM accounted for about 1/2 the new bolt rifles sold in 2018. The 308 accounted for about 5%. The 270 and 30-06 didn't make the top sales list, but were in the "Other" category. I haven't seen numbers for more recent years.
There have been several new bolt rifles introduced in the last few years that don't even offer 270 or 30-06 as options. Shooters are either going to the short action options, or various 26, 28, or 30 caliber magnums.
I still see the 350 Legend and 450 BM as niche guns which will be popular in certain areas of the country with limits on big game cartridges. For the rest of the country 6.5 CM, 7-08, and 308 are the new normal. Those 3 do 99% of what you can do with a 270 or 30-06 and do it in lighter, more compact rifles with less recoil.
There’s also a disproportionality in utilization. The typical gun and ammunition buyer of two generations ago was buying a hunting rifle, and didn’t do much shooting. Today, hunting is at an all time low and in further decline. New gun buyers are not buying hunting rifles or ammunition - they’re buying to shoot. Which means the days of grandpa’s old rifle with the same 4 boxes of ammunition he bought new 40 years ago, only missing the number of rounds commensurate with the number of deer he has shot since then are over.