Missouri Bullet Co question

Any 40cal LEAD bullet of the same weight will give you a recipe that's close enough to begin..... IF you begin loading at the Starting Load and work your way up in small increments.

alanwk said:

Everything I see and read say to lower your load by 10% for these coated bullets. So I am in good shape.

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You only want to reduce by 10% if there is NO suggested minimum load. Max load, was all that was given.

The coating replaces wax lube. You’re still loading a lead bullet. Missouri bullets display the hardness of their bullets on the box and that’s the really important thing to note. How hard the bullet is, the nominal diameter, the base style and the profile. I typically go by the Lymans cast data for #2 Alloy. If you don’t already have one, I highly recommend the 50th edition for a good reference on loading lead.

Iirc brinnel hardness I'd 18. So they're hard cast.

stillquietvoice said:

Iirc brinnel hardness I'd 18. So they're hard cast.

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Interesting thing about MBC is they use two different kinds of alloy. One is 92-2-6 and the other is 94-2-4. That’s not a huge difference but it is a difference and it changes the hardness (18 vs 14 BHN, IIRC). Lyman #2 alloy is 90-5-5 at 16 BHN which is pretty close to MBC’s 92-2-6. Not the same but functionally close. You’re absolutely right though that both are “hard cast.”

Don't back down 10% off the minimum load......that could get you into real trouble. Use cast data of the same weight, and start with the published minimum load.

stillquietvoice said:

Iirc brinnel hardness I'd 18. So they're hard cast.

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Brad would have given you some grief for calling any of his bullets hard cast. He despised the term and dared anyone to find a verified definition. That's why only the BHN is used. Now the most he can do is roll in his grave.

As others have said, a similar weight and technology bullet data will work.

alanwk said:

Everything I see and read say to lower your load by 10% for these coated bullets. So I am in good shape.

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Where are you getting that from? Depending on the powder, you may or may not see lead data. Hodgdon hasn’t stepped up to lead or coated data for .40/180gr yet. Alliant has some, for example the Acme FP-NLG Coated.
I can understand if you are using a Hodgdon powder reducing jacketed data by 10% for your coated bullet. Is this what you’re referring to? Good luck.

Jesse Heywood said:

Brad would have given you some grief for calling any of his bullets hard cast. He despised the term and dared anyone to find a verified definition. That's why only the BHN is used. Now the most he can do is roll in his grave.

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But, the definition of antimonial lead* is that it has been hardened with 3-6% antimony prior to casting; it is defined as "hard cast" as opposed to 99.995% pure lead. These are terms defined by foundries and the metals industry that have been around a very long time. It would be like my giving somebody grief for referring to a 300 series stainless steel as "chromium-nickel steel."

* from Rotometals:
Basic Rules for Hardening Lead-
For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 (Antimonial Lead) + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony)

lordpaxman said:

I can understand if you are using a Hodgdon powder reducing jacketed data by 10% for your coated bullet. Is this what you’re referring to? Good luck.

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Another thread with the same plaint, I looked and found Lyman loads, cast or jacketed, to be heavier than Hodgdon loads for jacketed only. Lots of discussion on seating depth, etc, but 10% off of Hodgdon data will be pretty low compared to any Lyman.

Me?
I go by my chronograph working from whatever seems a reasonable start. And I am not going for maximum very often.

^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah I look for a wide range of propellant that is nearly the same velocity and at the same time fairly accurate. Rarely even near the max load listed. With rifle I find the lowest accurate node is the most forgiving.

alanwk said:

Missouri Bullet Company ... TCFP ... Hi Tek. Now which bullet should I go by in the reloading info? 40S&W

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Coated lead bullets sized .001" larger are essentially lubed lead bullets with coating acting as lubricant.

For powder/Hi-Tek coated bullets sized .401", I use lead load data.

EricBu said:

Don't back down 10% off the minimum load......that could get you into real trouble. Use cast data of the same weight, and start with the published minimum load.

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Not necessarily. With revolver loads, I would not reduce below start charges in fear of sticking the bullet but with semi-auto barrels, any amount of powder in the case usually will push the bullet out the barrel.

With 40S&W 165/180 gr bullets, I have "worked down" from published start charges particularly with W231/HP-38 and faster burning powders for lighter 9mm like softer recoil for training.

With lead/coated lead/plated 180 gr TCFP, I have used 3.9-4.2 gr W231/HP-38 that is below Hodgdon start charge of 4.4 gr - https://shop.hodgdon.com/reloading-data-center

And here's a Guns & Ammo article that tested USPSA minor 40S&W loads and worked W231 for 180 gr Lead TCFP down to 3.5 gr - https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/ammunition_40lite_091806/138689

And for greater accuracy, loading longer than SAAMI max of 1.135" OAL -
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-for-lead-plated-bullets.743416/#post-9363753

GeoDudeFlorida said:

But, the definition of antimonial lead* is that it has been hardened with 3-6% antimony prior to casting; it is defined as "hard cast" as opposed to 99.995% pure lead. These are terms defined by foundries and the metals industry that have been around a very long time. It would be like my giving somebody grief for referring to a 300 series stainless steel as "chromium-nickel steel."

* from Rotometals:
Basic Rules for Hardening Lead-
For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 (Antimonial Lead) + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony)

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I agree with on the,300 stainless.. but the steel is not truly as stainless, it has steel and Will rust. When I started in B-52 repair and got my introduction to design with stainless, my first question was why do I need a finish callout for the raw material.. Because it rusts.

On hardcast Brad's argument was that the term is misused by so many that without SAAMI mandating a standard it will continue to be meaningless. There are still bullet casters who call BHN 15 hardcast. Without an industry standard the term is worthless.