DeepSouth
Random Guy
I own one, shot it a good bit and happen to mostly agree with him.
See that’s the thing with opinions, they can’t be wrong…..Because they’re subjective.
"Shockwave" style guns = love or hate?
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I own one, shot it a good bit and happen to mostly agree with him.
See that’s the thing with opinions, they can’t be wrong…..Because they’re subjective.
trackskippy
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For those who think they are painful to shoot, Ive got $100 here that says you'll have a totally different opinion on that after shooting 100 rounds of full power buck or slugs non stop out of a stocked gun and the Shockwave. 
Arms and elbows are shock absorbers, shoulder pockets are anvils.
Arms and elbows are shock absorbers, shoulder pockets are anvils.
But you formed an opinion after you've shot one.
That makes it valid because you have experience with it. His isn't valid because he dismissed it totally because he just knows that it recoils a bunch and is the exact same as a pistol grip shotgun. That's where he's wrong.
Shockwaves aren't for everyone and even though I like mine I'd never replace my shotgun with it because it's not really apples to apples there. It's handy and fun as heck to shoot. I thought they were stupid til I tried one too.
Shooting one and not liking it is totally valid but spouting off an assumption of truth is not.
For those who think they are painful to shoot, Ive got $100 here that says you'll have a totally different opinion on that after shooting 100 rounds of full power buck or slugs non stop out of a stocked gun and the Shockwave.
Arms and elbows are shock absorbers, shoulder pockets are anvils.
Exactly
trackskippy
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I would think some of this might be mitigated by "situation". Assuming its an issue at all.
If youre somehow carrying the shotgun as a primary weapon out in public, vs grabbing it in a home defense situation, I would think it would have two different flavors to the argument.
I would also think that if what youre using is legal to own and use where you are, then Im sure a decent attorney would shut that down pretty quick.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
No offense, but you don’t get to decide that.
Also he said
And that’s close enough for me.
The jury simulations were about home defense.
How? They didn't in the jury simulations.
If that is the case, better not use one of them evil looking AR's for home defense, or use any box magazine fed shotgun or a pistol with an extended magazine. Heck, the wrong people on a jury will get scared of a Taurus Judge or a S&W 500 too.
Again, use what you feel comfortable with. I'll use my Shockwave or AR.
That's not even the person I'm replying to....
( edit: Apparently I can't quote it exactly as you've posted)
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DeepSouth
Random Guy
Styx
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Only small 38 revolvers, micro pistols, 18" wooden stock hunting rifles, and double barreled shotguns in that case...
Any lawyer can easily point out that the Shokewave is legal, approved by the ATF, owned by many, and basically no different than a shotgun other than being more concealable. Plus, I'm not worried about improbable what if senarios.
trackskippy
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I think its a mistake to base things on what "might" happen, especially if your life is at risk, and the tool is the right one for the job, and youre proficient with it.
Better to be alive and have to deal with the jury, than the alternative.
What youre suggesting is to handicap yourself because someone might be offended by your choice of weapon. And as 12Bravo20 mentioned, a lot of things these days are portrayed as "bad", so youre likely to be doomed no matter what you choose.
If you play the game, you take your chances. If youre worried, get a good undertaker, or a better lawyer.
The subject is one of what can be expected to happen. And today's prosecutorial climate is much worss than it was the time of wring.
There is no one "right" tool for self defense--and if the tool one chooses helps to impoverish one and put you behind bars for a good part of the rest of one's life, it isn't the right tool
The defender will most likely deal with a jury. The question is one of the severity of the handicap.
"Might br offended"? No. It is a matter of giving jurors reason to believe that he defendant was a person predisposed to violence.
I do not see that that kid of firearm to be better for home defense than others. Not at all.
And others like myself don't see it as any worse for home defense. Again use what you feel comfortable with.
Okay. But the participants in GEM's scientifically-conducted jury simulations made it clear that they are influenced by such things.
People like yourself rarely make it past voir dire when juries are empaneled.
You can influence your future with your decisions up to the point at which you fire a shot. Past that point, you fate is completely out of your hands and in the hands of others.
And that is 100% true no matter what type of firearm you use to defend yourself. And I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
There is no right or wrong answer here, Use what you are most comfortable with. It could be a pistol, rifle, standard shotgun or a Shockwave. Most importantly you should train with all of them that you plan to use.
ANd I am amazed that this thread is 7 pages long.
Yes, but the ordeal can be heavily influenced by choices that yoy msde beforehand.
I do not need a firearm that is very likely to put me in a bad light to preclude the latter, and I would like the former to go as well a possible.
It is well understood bu those who work in the field of use of force law that there are a number of things regarding defensive firearms that on should avoid. Those who know about those things will not be "comfortable with" any of those.
@Kleanbore it is obvious that you have a very different opinion than a lot of us that have posted in this thread. I'm not going to argue with you. Use whatever firearm you want for HD and I'll use whatever I want for HD. Again No right or wrong answer here.
And I have been trained in using many different levels of force from having overwhelming firepower to peace keeping duties where less than lethal was used and everything in between. And I have also been in combat several times along with pulling peace keeping duties.
And I have been trained in using many different levels of force from having overwhelming firepower to peace keeping duties where less than lethal was used and everything in between. And I have also been in combat several times along with pulling peace keeping duties.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
I heard Massad Ayoob say once (when talking about ammo selection) something to the affect of “chose whatever you want, but be ready to defend that choice in front of a potentially hostile jury.”
I kind of think the same applies to in this case, to gun selection in general.
I kind of think the same applies to in this case, to gun selection in general.
Did you read the linked publication by GEM? Did you uneretand it? Do you have any basis for refuting it?
I think we have beat this one to death and all opinions for and against. Shutting it down.
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