Primer pockets - how loose is too loose?

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bear166

bear166

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Howdy everybody.

To preface, I don't consider myself a newbie at this point (I've been doing it about a year and I've probably done a solid 2000 rounds at this point) but I'll freely admit that there's always more to learn. Having acquired quite a bit of brass over my shooting career, I don't think I've ever loaded a casing more than twice, so I haven't run into a situation where I've questioned whether or not a primer pocket is too loose as none of my brass has been worked very hard.

But, I've been reloading some .223/5.56 for my dad's AR, and having gone through all of his saved brass, he ordered a bunch of range brass. I swage all of the brass whether I see evidence of a crimp or not - seemed to work fine on previous batches of his brass which I knew had only been fired once. But with this random bunch of brass, I'm finding that quite a few of the primers seat with much less resistance than I would expect. One slid in with almost no resistance at all; that primer does appear to be seated firmly, but it made me ask myself "how loose is too loose?"

Just curious what your opinions are. Maybe I'm swaging off a bit too much, but plenty of the cases seat primers with a typical level of resistance. Maybe it's just a case that's seen a bit too much life (although it looks nearly new in every other regard). Either way, I don't think I could let someone else shoot this in good conscience without becoming a little more educated on the subject. Thanks in advance.
 
There are decision criteria. I have a spare decaping pin on the bench and if I can push the primer out by hand the it goes in the recycling bin. If not the case head is marked at the time and not reloaded again. For some that is far to unscientific and a guage pin or the like is a better route.
 
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AJC1 said:
There are decision criteria. I have a spare decaping pin on the bench and if I can push the primer out by hand the it goes in the recycling bin. If not the case head is marked at the time and not reloaded again. For some that far to unscientific and a guage pin or the like is a better route.
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That's a great idea. I have a spare decapping pin as well, I'll give that a shot. Thanks for your input!
 
Typically, if I find that one seats easier than the rest of the batch (of the same make and model) to the scrap bin it goes.

it’s a subjective seat of the pants feel kinda deal.

I’ve been loading since 2013 and still consider myself a fallible newb.... keeps complacency at bay
 
For those that seat real easily, I just drop them on the hardwood floors and if the primer stays in I’ll mark the case with a broad black sharpie and flatten in when it is fired next. If it falls out I flatten it then and deposit in the scrap bucket.

Lots of commercial brass will seat smoothly, some will be a little snug. Once swaged or reamed, most military brass will be a little snug, and some will seat smoothly. Sometimes it’s backwards and no reasoning seems plausible.
 
AJC1 said:
There are decision criteria. I have a spare decaping pin on the bench and if I can push the primer out by hand the it goes in the recycling bin. If not the case head is marked at the time and not reloaded again. For some that is far to unscientific and a guage pin or the like is a better route.
Click to expand...
I do this as well. On some brass that I have spent a bit of time prepping I can get an extra reload or two out of them with metric primers (foreign made).
Also of you suspect they are more than once fired check for incipient case head seperation with a bent wire or such. If they have a rut toss them out.
 
Many people say that a primer pocket is good until the primer falls out or won't hold however studies have shown that primers set firm but not crushed at will produce the most consistent results visible on paper.
 
Wow, normally I'd try to reply to all of you individually, but I got quite a few comments over night.

I think I will be buying myself one of those pocket gauges, haven't seen something like that but I can see where it would be very handy.

In the meantime, sounds like I also have a few good ways to spot check 'em.

Thanks everyone!
 
The Glockodile said:
For Bolt Guns and Bench Shooting - it the primer stays put and still obturates on detonation without burning the bolt face - it'll do...
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I had to chuckle upon reading this. It's how I roll for regular casual shooting brass.

If the primer stays in place during the regular handling during loading, I shoot it.

If it feels loose when seating I'll rap it on the benchtop. If it doesn't come loose I shoot it.
:)
 
One thing I like about the Ballistic Tools gauge is that it has a square groove on the Go side and a V groove on the NoGo side, so it's easy to tell one side from the other quickly.
 
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bear166 said:
Primer pockets - how loose is too loose?
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When they leak.

I've tried gauging, and found that inter-brand variation in primers exceeded the gauge's useful differentiation range.

I now rely on feel and load data. A sedate batch of full-throttle 35ksi .357Mag will be ok with a few easy seating primers. A 65ksi batch of .270Win will not.

I am also using some expensive brass that's so loose on Win LRPs that they fall out under the weight of the decapping pin, but are quite tight on CCI LRPs (and have been for 5+ full power cycles).
 
I do most of my priming with a pretty sensitive hand tool. When I feel one that feels looser that the others I'll set it aside and deprime it, saving the primer and junking the case.

I recently loaded 1000 223's from mixed range brass and I had one headstamp where all of them were loose. I don't remember the headstamp but it was not a mainstream one. And being range brass, picked up where ever, there is no way of knowing its history.
 
It is important to note that my advice above is with the use of a dedicated hand primer. Priming on the press with a ram prime has such a mecanical advantage I can't feel the difference in tightness of seated primers. It all comes dpwn to what you are comfortable with in your ammo though.
 
Primer Go/No Go guage is priceless. Especially if you are swaging mil brass. You can use bits from a torx set as poor man's checkers too, I don't remember which ones, but you can bust out your dial calibers and figure out which ones to use pretty easy, or if you have a known good/new case..find the one that fits, and the one that is just barely too big to fit. I used two Torx bits for years when I was a poor soldier that couldn't afford a decent Go/No Go guage, one the right size, and one slightly bigger as my No Go.
 
While I have a set of pin gauges I also bought the Ballistic Tools primer pocket gauges. Think I bought them as a package deal and at $10 each when I bought them likely some of the best money I have spent.

Ron
 
Yes you can over swage your brass. Swage your brass by head stamp by grouping all of the same stamp together because some require more than others.
As I prime my brass if I get a primer go in too easy, I set it aside & after priming all the brass I go back to the questionable brass & test them. My test is a long pin that I can put pressure to try to push them out, if they move at all by hand the primers get removed & the brass gets scraped.
If I get a loose primer in some of my hard to come by brass after pushing in the primer if I notice a loose pocket I'll put a drop of super glue on the primer just to get one more shot from that brass. The glued brass gets scraped the next time around.
 
AK Hunter said:
Yes you can over swage your brass. Swage your brass by head stamp by grouping all of the same stamp together because some require more than others.
As I prime my brass if I get a primer go in too easy, I set it aside & after priming all the brass I go back to the questionable brass & test them. My test is a long pin that I can put pressure to try to push them out, if they move at all by hand the primers get removed & the brass gets scraped.
If I get a loose primer in some of my hard to come by brass after pushing in the primer if I notice a loose pocket I'll put a drop of super glue on the primer just to get one more shot from that brass. The glued brass gets scraped the next time around.
Click to expand...

Good info there! Didn't think to group them by head stamp, I'll make sure to do that next time.

After seeing all the praise for the Swage Gage, I went ahead and ordered the set. The case in question survived all of the other tests you guys have recommended, so I think that one is good to go. I'm going to go ahead and mark it though so I know to test it out with the gauge next time around.

Thanks again for all the help guys, this has always been something I've wondered about and knew I would run into eventually. I'm glad I know what to look for now, and how to deal with it when it comes up.
 
If you just got to use the cases over again, well then .217 berdan pockets can be tightened up enough so that regular ,210 boxer fit nicely in Swede or Swiss cases or other hard to find berdan ammo. Tightening up boxers should be a cake walk. BestAll
 
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