When will the hi-cap micro 9 magazine tech get applied...

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Trey Veston

Trey Veston

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To mid-sized 9mm pistols?

I bought my P365 because 12-rounds of 9mm in such a small pistol was too good to be true. Turns out, it wasn't and it is an amazing little pistol.

But, I am gravitating towards a larger pistol for some reason and been looking at mid-sized .40 S&W pistols since if I am going for a larger carry gun, I might as well have 12 or 13 rounds of a larger caliber than 12 or 15 rounds of 9mm.

However, if there was a mid-sized 9mm that held 18 or 20 rounds, then that would be seriously tempting.

If Shield Arms can market a 15-round magazine to fit the single-stack Glock 48, then surely they could come out with a 20-round magazine for the G19.

And mid-sized/compact is anything smaller than the Glock 19/23. Compared to the P365, they are giants.

Any yes, I know that wanting more ammo is stupid, and only people that rely on pray and spray tactics carry more than 6 rounds. Save those comments for another thread. This one is about application of magazine technology to other platforms.
 
Certainly be interesting to see if they develop this way or if everyone just sits on the current capacities.

I thought one of the reasons the shield mags work is because they are thinner steel over the thick Glock polymer, and Glock seems pretty married to their poly mags so I don't see Glock pushing this envelope at all.
 
I was wondering something similar recently - What's next? We've reached the point where 9mm guns can't get much smaller without some radical design changes. And would smaller even be better? You need a grip big enough to grab onto and a barrel long enough for some acceleration of the bullet. At about 1 lbs. there's not much left to get rid of. The weight of the loaded magazine is close to 50% of the weight of the gun.

I wouldn't view a Glock 19 with a 20 round flush fit magazine much of a game changer. I already have 17, 21, 30 and 33 round magazines for Glock 17. Any of those magazines can be used in the Glock 19 already. Trying to squeeze a 5 more rounds inside of flush fit magazine seems like a neat gimmick but would be an engineering nightmare.
 
I don't think this can be done to increase capacity in larger grip pistols. These "one and a half" stack magazines in the P365/Hellcat/Shield Plus are basically double stack magazines with the bottom third cut off. The capacity gain comes from the transition from double to single stack.
 
Probably diminishing returns. In a glock 19 sized pistol I personally have 15+1 in my CZ-PCR, and 17+1 in my HK-P30. I have a G48 and some shield arms S15 mags. The gain in rounds is worthy. But I switched it back to glock mags due to trust issues on my part. And when I got my P365XL with stock 12 round and 15 round mags, so small (even "XL") it's too good to ignore.

Now, if Glock came out with flush fit 12-15 rounds in the 43x/48, that would challenge the 365 :)
 
I would think the manufacturers would almost have to address capacity on larger guns. The new hi-cap micro compacts hold the same as many compact & subcompact guns.
 
The P365 (et alii) trick only works with form-factors that were previously the domain of single stacks. If you already have a double stack mag eg your Glock 19/17/26/etc, you have no rabbit from the hat sleight-of-hand as a designer.

The choices are basically: fat double stack grip, short and fat double stack grip, more concealable and comfortable single stack grip, or the new hybrid p365 style that gets you most of the svelteness of the single with most of the capacity of the double. Simply more sophisticated than the older generations of semi autos.
 
I previiously purchased a Canik TP9SF which uses an 18 round magazine. A field or duty gun in size. Then, shortly after, a P365, and found the Canik magazine would insert into the SIG, just not lock. I measured the width and they came up to the same hundredth wide. Looking further, I found the mag release hole very closely matched, just the shape was different, one rounded, one square.

I'm less than convinced about the so called proprietary 1 1/2 stacking. If a pure bred double stack Walther P99 copy will fit in the SIG, it's not all that. Reading about copyright and IP suits between companies, it's the transitition to single feed that is the difference - IIRC SIG has a longer, thinner funnel to get around the web of the hand. Calling it a 1 1/2 stack seems more proprietary IP talk than reality. But that long funnel is what makes that magazine not the same as any other and why it's standalone. That was a big leap for SIG not being able to share an existing magazine, and it seems to be working out.
 
So the OP is asking for the 1.5 mag tech in other platforms in larger calibers? I find double stack 1911s in 45 ACP to be too fat but maybe a 1.5 stack would be a cool idea for more capacity.
 
Beretta APX Centurion in .40 offer 10 & 13 round mags.
 
Jonesy814 said:
I would think the manufacturers would almost have to address capacity on larger guns. The new hi-cap micro compacts hold the same as many compact & subcompact guns.
Click to expand...

Some are working on it... S&W's full size M&P 2.0 in .40 holds 15 rounds in the mag, and it weighs the same as my Beretta 96D with 11 rounds in the mag. I
 
At some point magazine capacity will
be so great that either the carrier's
pants will fall down around the ankles
or serious arthritis in the neck and
shoulders will develop because of
shoulder strap strain.
 
Like other's have touched on, the capacity gains have come from taking a single stack and making it 1.5 or double stacked. You can't really improve upon guns that are already double stacked unless someone figures out how to make a triple stack magazine work, and frankly I don't want to own something with a grip that fat.
 
Well, the answer is turning the grip into a magazine. Imagine a quad stack, 50 round magazine for a mid to full size pistol. You'd have to beef up the connection points so the whole grip is detachable, as it would no longer be a well that the magazine inserted into, but the magazine itself. But then I suppose at that point you have to do some fancy engineering with the fire control, but I think it could be done. Mag changes would be cumbersome as there's not much to hold on to once the mag/grip is dropped. Yeah, this is sounding worse and worse the more I think about it
 
When you start talking about quad stacks, it gets complicated. The two I know of, Surefire and Spectre, are really two double stack sections side by side in the same shell, feeding into one double stack that either feeds the chamber from alternate sides (Surefire AR) or is further squeezed down into a center feed (Spectre.). Here is a picture of the Spectre magazine, which was an Italian submachine gun neutered to a semiauto "pistol" for sale in the Colonies.

Evers_M4_SMG_mag.svg.png

An old article about gunbook author W.H.B. Smith said he did some designing on the side, including a .22 "that would hold a whole box of ammo." I don't have the issue and don't recall details. Maybe a patent could be found.
 
bersaguy said:
Well, the answer is turning the grip into a magazine. Imagine a quad stack, 50 round magazine for a mid to full size pistol. You'd have to beef up the connection points so the whole grip is detachable, as it would no longer be a well that the magazine inserted into, but the magazine itself. But then I suppose at that point you have to do some fancy engineering with the fire control, but I think it could be done. Mag changes would be cumbersome as there's not much to hold on to once the mag/grip is dropped. Yeah, this is sounding worse and worse the more I think about it
Click to expand...

And I’m pretty sure there wouldn’t be enough room anyway. Ever seen how thin the metal is on a Hi Power in the grip area? And polymer has to be thicker to have the same strength. Any double stack is engineered to be as thin and ergonomic as possible for as many different hands as possible. Mayyybe a grip-mag could be a triple stack? But I kinda doubt it. I wonder if there’s any triple stack rifles or submachine guns? If anything could use that kind of extra capacity to justify the engineering PITA it’d be something with a giggle switch…
 
Double stack is about all there is. The existing quad stack magazines are internally dual double stacks. I can't think how to make a triple stack work.

They are also limited by the staggering requirement, you can't just lay cartridges in there side by side, they have to be staggered to get to the feed position. I am sure the makers have the angles well established.

Note that a Beretta Model 81 .32 does not hold any more rounds than a Model 84 .380 on the same frame. I have seen 12, 13, and 14 mentioned, but the 14 was a .380 magazine bent to hold .32s because Model 81 magazines are vanishingly scarce.

The only thing to be gained with a .32 or a .32 Super as has been discussed is a narrower magazine and butt. Which is desirable in a pocket pistol but not a major factor in a service weapon.
 
There's nothing really that new or unique to the micro-nines and their increased capacities.
Other than finding a different engineering compromise (all such things are an engineering compromise).
One of the issues the 365 and its ilk have is that the spring is stout, and you need a mag loader to get them full, at least until the spring gets a bit "broken in" (which is a horribly inapt description, engineering-wise).

"We" are (generally) willing to accept a hard-to-load magazine in a super-compact defense pistol. But, the same is probably less true for a mid size or full size pistol. After you get 15 rounds in, do you really want to haul out the mag loader to get 2 more rounds in? Four more?

Shoot, I get tired well before getting to 30 rounds in extended mags (back in my competitive days).
 
CapnMac said:
But, the same is probably less true for a mid size or full size pistol. After you get 15 rounds in, do you really want to haul out the mag loader to get 2 more rounds in? Four more?
Click to expand...
I dont even load my 10 rnders full most of the time, while I have no use for mid size with a 10+ mag simply because they arnt legal here, id also have very little interest in one from a practical sense....... I DO like the thicker grips found on the new mini guns, I have a p32 that even in .32acp is almost impossible for me to fire two or three consecutive shots without having to wiggle the gun around in my hand to get it pointed straight again.
 
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