MacAR
Member
Thanks a lot... I've had to add this one to my Amazon list now, along with "Hell, I was There" and "Sixguns". Looks like I'll either have a really nice Christmas or be broke before payday....
Mac
Keith's Preference In Sixguns
- Thread starter Mr. Mosin
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Thanks a lot... I've had to add this one to my Amazon list now, along with "Hell, I was There" and "Sixguns". Looks like I'll either have a really nice Christmas or be broke before payday....
Mac
tbob38
Member
Do you suppose that the town that the bar was in had gun carry laws? Many did.
ThomasT
Member
I think the myth that every cowboy had on a six shooter is just that. A myth. The guns were expensive and so was the ammo. I remember reading a cowboy made about $15 a month. Also that a Colt single action in the mail order Sears catalog was priced at $15. So a months wage just for the gun. And those didn't come with a box of shells either. I think a real cowboy if he was ever armed was most likely armed with a shotgun of some sort or if he was smart a rifle. A handgun would have been way down on the list.
A cowboys most prized possession was his saddle. Even more important than his horse. Out on the prarie there wasn't much to waste an expensive cartridge on. And popping off a round while herding cows could very likely start a stampede. Starting a stampede would probably get you fired if the cows didn't stomp you in the dirt first.
MacAR
Member
Probably a lot of truth to that. Most all the old guys I've talked to out in Arizona and West Texas never really used a handgun, but a few did. But the handgun really only got used putting critters out of their misery or popping at a varmint if they weren't near their rifle, and was rarely if ever taken to town. That was just inviting trouble. Most all of them had a rifle, and of those I talked to, the 30-30 was the cartridge to have. Only ever talked to one or two who used carbines in pistol calibers; those that did, did so out of necessity rather than choice.
That same mindset applies to my area of the Ozarks as well. Used to, no one carried a handgun in public unless the were a LEO or had a CCW. Now people parade 'em down the main street. Never understood why a feller needed a hog leg to go to the grocery store.To each his own, and not trying to step on any toes. Me, I use my sixguns on the farm. Sure hard to carry a rifle on a tractor, and I've managed a few varmints that I would've never had an opportunity at were I not heeled at the time. Even knocked off a deer with my .357 last fall while bush hogging the fence line.
I guess I sorta understand why we don't see a lot of pictures of cowboys that are heeled; why carry a pistol when you don't really need to?
Mac
J-Bar
Member
Mr. Art Omans, a cartoonist and veterinary client of mine who specialized in cowboy cartoons, turned an offhand comment into a work of art! Double entendre not planned but delightful. Edit for relevance—I bet Elmer would have laughed if he had seen this!
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stanley_white
Member
Not from Keith, and not from first hand experience, but I understand that if one fires a single action revolver on horseback, and the horse becomes frightened, the rider might squeeze the revolver tightly while the horse does its thing, and with a single action there is no risk of a second discharge.
-Stan
-Stan
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
So is this thread about Elmer Keith or about 2nd and 3rd hand history lessons and suppositions?
My limited research indicated that at the Fort I live near ,had an officers pay at $30 a month back in the 1870's or 80's . This was told to me 2nd hand by a friend who owned land next to the fort and found a stash of 30 $1 gold pieces on his land with a cheap metal detector (in a rotted leather pouch). He did the research so I can't verify that figure. My reproduction 1908 Sears catalog if I recall listed the SA Colt peacemaker at $12 . Off brand little break opens as low as $3.95 if I recall. I had a friend with a reproduction of the old Bannerman catalog but I never looked to see if they had any Army surplus Colt SA's. My guess is if you could buy a new one for $12 in 1908, perhaps a used one could be had for $7 or $8.
One of the requirements imposed by the Army on S&W was that the cylinders of the 1917 Hand Ejector chambered for the 45 ACP cartridge had to be heat treated. S&W argued that the steel used was sufficient but ended up heat treating them in order to get the contract. It was the first use of heat treatment by S&W.
Kevin
Kevin
Kevin Keith
Member
Just law abiding citizens! Texas outlawed open and concealed carry of handguns in 1871. The "Ledge" and Gov Abbott brought it back in 2021, but you still can't belly up to the bar when you're heeled...still a no-no! lol
BobWright
Member
MacAR said:
" Never understood why a feller needed a hog leg to go to the grocery store."
Our local supermarkets, especially the big Kroger stores, have been the scenes of many carjackings, beatings, purse snatchings and other forms of mayhem. I go armed everywhere I go. I don't intend to be a victim.
Even when stopped for traffic lights. Thugs here will bump the rear end of you vehicle, then when the driver gets out to survey the damage, he gets a pistol shove in his face. It sort of a nasty world out there.
Bob Wright
" Never understood why a feller needed a hog leg to go to the grocery store."
Our local supermarkets, especially the big Kroger stores, have been the scenes of many carjackings, beatings, purse snatchings and other forms of mayhem. I go armed everywhere I go. I don't intend to be a victim.
Even when stopped for traffic lights. Thugs here will bump the rear end of you vehicle, then when the driver gets out to survey the damage, he gets a pistol shove in his face. It sort of a nasty world out there.
Bob Wright
ontarget
Member
Amen to that. I don't pretend to be able to predict where and when bad things can/will happen.
Of course we can avoid certain areas but sometimes the mayhem just shows up. Even on the right side of the tracks.
MacAR
Member
And that, Bob, is why I don't live in Memphis. Our county seat has a population of 1800; only about 15k in the whole county. But I guess if I lived in Memphis I'd carry, too. So far the only thing I've encountered around here that warrants packing iron is marauding possums and their armored kin. Not much call for self defense in these parts.
Mac
BobWright
Member
MacAR
Member
At the risk of going off topic, yes that about sums it up. Sure, you have a couple dope fiends and the occasional drunk, but violent crime is pretty darn rare. Last killing I remember was a drug deal gone bad, and it was the law that done the killing. Even so, I don't feel the need to carry a handgun on my person everywhere I go. I do carry a rifle every day however. But its more for varmints and targets of opportunity than personal defense. At the end of the day, it's a personal choice to carry or not. I simply choose not to.
Mac
Violent crimes, house fires, and medical emergencies are all "pretty darn rare", but in the event, they can be pretty darn serious.
On can choose to accept the risk unmitigated, or to mitigate the risk.
Elmer said that in Idaho, most people carried.
I agree. There is a saying if I remember correctly about gold. it goes "gold is where you find it" . I think trouble has that same characteristic.
.308 Norma
Member
Maybe, but who here goes looking for trouble?
MacAR
Member
Maybe, but who here goes looking for trouble?
My sentiments exactly. But enough of that and back to Elmer...
Elmer pioneered the 357, as we all know. But it's predecessor, the 38/44, is rarely talked about these days. It happens to be my favorite way to load for my 357 handguns, and I feel confident it would stop any 2 or 4 legged critter that I might encounter. Not to mention recoil is less than full house magnums. It works pretty darn well in rifles, too. Anyone else have similar thoughts or am I alone here?
Mac
.308 Norma
Member
Naw, you're certainly not alone. My favorite 357 loads are +P or +P+ 38 Special loads in 357 Magnum cases.
Besides that, I think a Smith 38/44 "Outdoorsman" in pristine condition is probably my primary "bucket list" handgun. I sure wish Smith still built those things, but I guess most people wouldn't see any reason for a revolver that will only chamber 38 Special ammo that is "almost" as powerful as 357 Magnum ammo.
Hangingrock
Member
Coopers USMC service in WW2 was the commanding officer of the Marine Detachment on the battleship Pennsylvania. He may have witnessed ground combat be he was not directly in ground combat. He did do assessment of Naval Gun fire after the ground fighting had terminated. He did not serve in Korea either in a line outfit be rather clandestine service in the Far East. I have several books from Wisdom Publishing (One of his daughters was the publisher) that covers his life's work.
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
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You're definitely not alone. My 6" Colts Official Police and Army Special revolvers both prefer heavy bullets with 2400 like the old .38/44 170gr. I prefer lubed #2 alloy over jacketed, even though it is a bit smoky. I use 10.5 of 2400 powder - which is a little lighter than Elmer went but, I'm not shooting desperados in steel-bodied Ford V8's.
One of the online sellers I really like casts a modified Keith LSWC as a 160gr. LSWC-HP in real #2 Alloy (90-5-5) and it not only expands reliably in pigs, it stays in one silver-dollar-sized piece. I won't shoot those in my 15-3. Tried it in one of my Taurus 82's and accuracy was only so-so. No harm to the gun just not as impressive as in the Colts.
MacAR
Member
I load mine in 38 cases; right now I'm using about 5 grains of W231 under a jsp. Both my SAA repros really seem to like them, and they're a stopper on hogs. Haven't gotten brave enough to try 'em in my 1866 since its a 38 only gun. But I'm going to do some experiments with 2400 and cast bullets soon. Which leads me to:
Got a link to those? A healthy charge of 2400 and those bullets sounds right up my alley.
Mac
Maybe, but who here goes looking for trouble?
You might want to look behind you because the point apparently flew over your head.
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