Which Factory AR?

Depends on what you are going to do with it. The S&W looks set up for target shooting more than the others. If it's just a run n fun gun, cheap works... you can upgrade later.

Of those three I'd take the Ruger and never look back. The S&W has some nice features but I don't need ambi controls (and I actually prefer a mil-spec CH) so it's not a huge selling point for me.

I've had several AR's in the past, currently have 4. The Ruger MPR is my favorite and if I had to limit myself to just one it is the one I'd keep. The 18" barrel is borderline too long for what most guys want for HD, but I find the advantages as an all around rifle outweigh the negatives.

Ruger if for no other reason than their customer support.

Buy the cheapest one and use the extra on mags, ammo an optic and training. That is far more important than 7 vs 8 barrel twist or grip texture.

Let's take a look at the Ruger first-
MSRP: $1059
Impact Online Sales: $849.89
https://www.impactguns.com/semi-aut...ck-b5-grip-m-lok-black-30rd-736676085422-8542

Pros: Upper & lower made from hard anodized 7075 forgings. Bolt is shot peened. Midlength gas system. Inside of carrier chrome plated. Full power hammer spring. Staked gas key.
Cons: unknown barrel material. Spring quality unknown. No barrel lining listed
Stuff That Makes This AR More Expensive: Free float tube. Two stage trigger. Hammer forged barrel. Bravo B5 furniture. Muzzle brake.
Cut Corners: 9310 bolt. Possibly barrel material. No type of barrel lining listed.

Whether or not The Stuff Making This AR More Expensive is worth the extra cost is subjective. Personally, I don't like aluminum handguards or muzzle brakes. I do like the Bravo grip and the B5 stock is an improvement over the M4 style stock. I prefer good two stage triggers but am fine with standard AR triggers that have been smoothed out. For some reason, hammer forged barrels cost more. This is puzzling because hammer forging was a process developed to mass produce barrels at a lower cost. Some claim hammer forged barrel are more durable, yet testing shows not by a significant amount.

At this price point, the AR should come with a bolt made from Carpenter steel and barrels made from 4150CV and chrome lined or QPC'd. It should come with top quality springs, not springs from some generic source.

In my opinion, the Ruger isn't worth it's MSRP of $1059 and isn't a bargain at $850.

Next, let's look at the S&W MP-15T2-

MSRP: $1372
Impact Guns Online Sales: $1299
https://www.impactguns.com/semi-aut...agpul-ctr-m-lok-black-30rd-022188887563-13492

Pros: Upper & Lower made from hard anodized 7075 forgings. Midlength gas system. 5R rifling.
Cons: Unknown bolt material. Unknown if bolt shot peened. Oversized, overweight muzzle device.
Stuff That Makes This AR More Expensive: Free float tube. Flat faced trigger. Rubber buffers for tighter fit between upper & lower. Raptor charging handle. M&P grip with interchangeable inserts. Magpul CTR stock. Magpul MBUS sights. Ambi selector switch.
Cut Corners: 4140 steel barrel with Armornite finish. Possibly bolt material. Possible lack of shot peening.

Whether or not The Stuff Making This AR More Expensive is worth the extra cost is subjective. Personally, I don't like aluminum handguards or muzzle brakes. The flat faced trigger depends on whether or not the shooter likes it. I like it. The rubber buffers are a nice touch, but not needed. The Raptor charging handle is a big improvement over the standard CH but may not be the shooters first choice. The M&P grip with inserts is intriguing and nearly grip I've tried is a big improvement over the A2. I think the M&P grip will prove to be a positive. I like the CTR stock and find it to be an improvement over the M4 style stock. The MBUS sights don't hold zero well. Some will like an ambitious selector, some won't.

At this price point, the S&W should come with a shot peened Carpenter steel bolt, a barrel made of 4150CV and by fitted with good sights. The muzzle device is heavy and overly long. Replacing it with an A2 birdcage noticeably improves handling.

In my opinion, the S&W is over priced at $1300, let alone its MSRP of $1372.

Finally, the Stag-

MSRP: $1044.19
Not Listed @ Impact

Pros: Upper & lower made from hard anodized 7075 forgings. Midlength gas system. Chrome lined M16 carrier with nitride or phosphate finish. 4150 button rifled barrel. H buffer.
Cons: Bolt material unknown. Peening unknown. RE not specified.
Stuff That Makes This AR More Expensive: Free Float aluminum tube. Magpul SL stock & MOE Grip. MOE trigger guard.
Corners Cut: Possibly bolt material and lack of shot peening. Possible use of generic springs. RE not specified.

At this price point, the AR should have a shot peened Carpenter steel bolt and milspec RE.

Again, What Makes The AR More Expensive is subjective. I don't like aluminum tubes. I really like SL stocks. MOE grips are better than A2 grips.

In my opinion, the Stag is a bit over priced at an MSRP of $1044. However, it looks like it might be a good choice if it's street price is under $800 out the door.

Stag.

I'll vouch for the BCG being fine. Don't care about the springs, you can swap those anytime.

Springs can be swapped anytime, but will the owner realize when a new extractor spring is needed, or will they waste time following bad Internet advice?

The springs are fine. If you're worried about them, eat one less Big Mac tomorrow, and you'll have the budget for an extractor spring and rubber from BCM.

Zerodefect said:

The springs are fine. If you're worried about them, eat one less Big Mac tomorrow, and you'll have the budget for an extractor spring and rubber from BCM.

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Hey, don't get in between a fat American and his Big Mac.

But I wholeheartedly agree, there are a few minor reliability upgrades to do on over the counter AR's that cost less than $20-30 total.

Zerodefect said:

The springs are fine. If you're worried about them, eat one less Big Mac tomorrow, and you'll have the budget for an extractor spring and rubber from BCM.

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1) The O ring is an interim fix.
2) Any extractor spring that needs an O ring needs to be replaced.
3) Anyone serious about shooting can afford to buy replacement extractor springs without dipping into their Big Mac fund.

The cost of a Colt extractor spring isn't much. But that isn't my point. My point is, owners not familiar with trouble shooting extraction problems and getting bad advice when looking for solutions- carrier is outrunning the mag spring; the AR is over gassed; the AR is under gassed; it's the ammo and so on. The owner tries each "fix" and takes a trip to the range only to find out it didn't solve the problem. The cost in fuel, range fees, ammo and time ends up being much more than a Big Mac.

Does any one of them offer an accuracy guarantee? Just a milspec accuracy guarantee was what I got, and I finally replaced the barrel with a match grade one. I’m happy now.

Olympus said:

Built tons over the years, but thought I'd try a factory offering now.

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Not to derail, but this interests me. It’s the “Why he does what he does” in the “What does he do”?

What could these offer you that you are missing in your own rifles?

I suspect nothing. Which leads me to my question.


And I voted. S&W.
I like lighter barrels, aluminum free floating handguards and muzzle devices that work. Strange.

Ruger service is great and all, but, it’s an AR, man.

None of the above, I'd build (assemble) 2 more PSA ar15's.

5R Rifled 1:8 Barrel on the Smith would be a strong selling point for me. The flat face trigger could be good, I love the Geissele flat bow trigger, but not having tried the Smith trigger I can't really say but chances are it's decent if not great. The barrel is 4140 instead of 4150 but is nitrided so that's a plus that sort of makes up for the minus. Chances are if the bolt isn't advertised as C158 "mil spec" it's probably their semi auto BCG with a bolt of unknown steel, because they are sourcing parts from someone who gives them what they got (9310,C158, etc ) so they just don't list what it is. The Raptor CH is an excellent improvement over the mil spec imo, but I'm sure for these lil improvements such as stock, CH and MLok you are probably paying through the nose for these stock features, Vs. Putting your own together or buying from a company that doesn't have a "budget" line to upgrade from, where even the basic setup is still premium......

I agree that they are a lil over priced and you can probably build something actually better quality for the same price or less than having to make compromises trying to select an off the rack, or just buy a complete rifle from a company that lists premium components for each and every part.

Either one of these will surely work for it's intended purpose, I would assume the barrel on the Smith has superior accuracy than the other two, although at a glance the Stag seems like it lists superior grade of steel for the BCG and bbl. Is the barrel on the Smith made by TC does anybody know? TC 5R bbl's are supposed to be very accurate. Just my thoughts....

$700 - $800 OTD would be fair prices.

$1100 is too much.

Right now, a new Colt can be had for $1000. It won’t have any of the Stuff That Makes This AR More Expensive, but it will be built to spec using the right materials and the correct springs. No corners cut. No over sized gas ports. Good quality control. 1.5 MOA or better with good ammo. The downside is it comes with a MagPul MBUS rear sight.

The 6920 is gassed right, so the carbine gas stem with the 16” barrel isn’t a con. But it would be a pro if it was a middy.

Myself, I’d have to replace the M4 stock, A2 grip and round hand guards.

Olympus said:

Purpose would be home defense/truck gun.

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Back in the day (before the current nonsense) I would have recommended a DPMS Oracle, which was in the $400 range at the time. As long as it's been proven to be reliable, I don't see why an inexpensive AR can't fill that role. Money being no object... pick one. You won't get into quality build parts until you hit about $1200'ish (likely more, these days.) I tend to agree with this comment...

drobs said:

None of the above, I'd build (assemble) 2 more PSA ar15's.

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sarduy said:

Buy the cheapest one and use the extra on mags, ammo an optic and training. That is far more important than 7 vs 8 barrel twist or grip texture.

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I tend to agree....

Most people need to take a $700 AR to training and discover why it only cost $700.