TC Hawken, a muzzleloaders only uses FF

I've used Pyrodex 'P" in my Traditions .50 Hawken often when I couldn't find FFFG BP locally. You just have to remember that Pyrodex (at least, not sure about any other substitutes) is measured volumetrically, not weight charge like BP. You need to start with, and usually end with, lower charge weight equivalents of Pyrodex than BP. I use FFFG and 'P' in my rifle, because I only have one rifle, but a couple BP revolvers.
In my .50, I loaded 83 grains of 'P' for a hunting load. I used a .50AE case for a measure, and 2 full cases= 83 grains+/- .5 gr.

I only have 1 T/C left, a Greyhawk ( a stainless synthetic New Englander more or
less) and I usually use 80-90 grains of
FFF regular black. That's with a PRB or
a Buffalo Ball Et . That does just fine, and
everything hit with it has made the final
trip in the cooler.
My other 50's and 54's get the same fuel

Shoot whichever (2Fg/3Fg) shoots best -- and whatever load works best....
Starting with the 'caliber in grain-weight' up to where the group falls apart (and/or patch shreds)

I use 3F in my 58 and I know of plenty others who also use 3F in 58 cal.

You can use it in 50 fine.

That does seem like something a manufacturer might put in their literature though.

I shoot 3f in pretty much everything. No issues, just cut the charge level a bit and be happy.

3f in my .54 since '83

Those using 3f is the reason for using it in your long gun , accuracy or availability , or you just like using one powder ?

red rick said:

Those using 3f is the reason for using it in your long gun , accuracy or availability , or you just like using one powder ?

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I like using one powder. You can use 3F to prime a flinter too. I have also heard of folks using 2F to prime flinters but I have never tried it.

This way you can use 3F for anything you have from 32 to 62 (maybe 72 as well. Don’t know and have never tried it) and you won’t need any other powder.

Accuracy is acceptable and I have not tried any other powder.

I've been shooting muzzle loaders since T/C starting making them. Use what ever works best, you're not gonna blow it up. I even use 70grs of 3F with 1oz of shot in my 12ga shotguns and 12ga Trade Guns with 715 PRB.

I recently read that as black powder is sold by the pound, so regardless of granulation the stored energy in that pound is the same. The difference comes in by the fact we throw charges by volume not weight. For example 100 grains of 3F by volume contains more energy than 2f because it weighs more due to grain size and air space between the powder kernels.
Makes sense to me.

red rick said:

Those using 3f is the reason for using it in your long gun , accuracy or availability , or you just like using one powder ?

Click to expand...

One powder. Worked fine in the 1849 .31 also.

whughett said:

I recently read that as black powder is sold by the pound, so regardless of granulation the stored energy in that pound is the same. The difference comes in by the fact we throw charges by volume not weight. For example 100 grains of 3F by volume contains more energy than 2f because it weighs more due to grain size and air space between the powder kernels.
Makes sense to me.

Click to expand...

Yeah, me too.

I had a buddy that would complain that his gun was giving him a black eye. It turns out he was using FFF powder not the FF that he was supposed to be using behind the 450gr maxi ball & the cheek weld on the stock would black his eye. I was surprised he didn't blow that gun up.

It’s been demonstrated it’s extremely difficult to “blow up” a black powder rifle, while using a moveable projectile at least.

The majority of my bp shooting is.45ish.
3f works good in .32 to .54. I have used 3f in my 12 bore, but I usually keep 2f for that.

I included several pounds of 2F in my last order at Graf. An old 1924 Remington double in 12 gage and a breech loading carbine. I feel better using the 2 f in both guns because of their age. I can round out the shot column in the paper shells better and fill the breech loaders cases fuller with out adding more pressure. Might be a small thing but I feel better doing it.

whughett said:

I included several pounds of 2F in my last order at Graf. An old 1924 Remington double in 12 gage and a breech loading carbine. I feel better using the 2 f in both guns because of their age. I can round out the shot column in the paper shells better and fill the breech loaders cases fuller with out adding more pressure. Might be a small thing but I feel better doing it.

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I got my powderfrom Graf also.
I bought Graf brand.

Yep same here but I think you get a tad more then I do. I only do 20 pounds.

I hadn’t even noticed until mentioned on this forum that Graf had changed their house brand !’ I still have a few pounds of the Schuetzen stuff.

3F is the way to go with a .50 cal. IMO. Better ignition equals less lag time equals better accuracy.

red rick said:

Those using 3f is the reason for using it in your long gun , accuracy or availability , or you just like using one powder ?

Click to expand...

There is a slight difference in 2 and 3f in that if you're measuring by volume, you get more 3f powder in terms of weight. I shoot by weight so it's not a difference in that respect. The real reason for me is that 3f delivers excellent accuracy with less fouling than 2f. That's a huge issue when shooting competition with Civil War muskets and minies. Some do use 2f , but I've found 3f works better.

whughett said:

I recently read that as black powder is sold by the pound, so regardless of granulation the stored energy in that pound is the same. The difference comes in by the fact we throw charges by volume not weight. For example 100 grains of 3F by volume contains more energy than 2f because it weighs more due to grain size and air space between the powder kernels.
Makes sense to me.

Click to expand...

You're correct in the sense that a pound is a pound. The difference comes in when looking at burn rate. 2f has larger surface area/granule v 3f but when number of granules per charge is taken into account, 3f has far more surface area for a given volumetric charge. What this means is when measuring 2 v 3f in a volume sense, 3f will seem more energetic because it has a faster burn rate because of surface area. Clear as mud but that's the reason.

earlthegoat2 said:

You can use 3F to prime a flinter too.

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3F works fine in my 45 T/C Hawken Flintlock.

3F is fine. It's most likely a warning to the idiots who will try to use smokeless powder. Which is a Very Bad Idea.

TC does not like people using 3f in their muzzle loading 2f designed rifles. They have done tests and found that performance gains are minimal for the increased pressures. They in no uncertain terms say not to do it. I understand many people have used 3f for years without incident but I am just saying.

I use 3f in my rifle and revolvers I see no need to change it. My .54 Lyman deerstalker has 100 grains FFg as max for 2f and 80 grains FFFg as max 3f in the manual.