455 Webley MkII, my endeavors to reload it, and my search for published data.

As many of you have probably seen I recently acquired and unshaved Webley Mark VI revolver (https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...g-and-waiting-unshaved-webley-mark-vi.887034/).

Well I am starting to think about reloading for it. I have been shooting ammo from Graf and Sons and it's decent ammo but not historically accurate and rather dirty. I really want to create a load as historic accurate load as I can. I did this with my Webley Mark IV where I replicated the original 38-200 MkI 200gr hemispherical round nose bullet at a blistering 600 fps. I got the bullets from Matt's bullet and he also offers a bullet for the 455 Webley too. His 455 bullet is a fairly faithful replica of the 455 Webley Mk II bullet, a 260gr round-nose, hollow-base bullet. The target velocity is going to be 600-650 fps. I beleive historically it was 600 fps but I may push slightly faster to bring the point of impact down to match the sights.

I have scoured the internet for data and most of it's fairly sketchy or for 45 ACP or 45 AR in a shaved Webley and only a small amount is decent data with velocity and none of the data has pressure data, but it's as good a starting point as I can find. I have measures the case volume of the Star Line brass I have updated that entry in Quick Loads. I have created an entry in QL for the 260 gr hollow based bullet based on historic dimensions and will update that when the bullets arrive from Matt's. So I have been playing in Quickloads and scouring the internet for data.

Right now I have this list of powders to I want to try based on data found out there on the internet and validate/explored in QuickLoads.

In order of most promising from QL:
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star
Vihtavuori N320
Alliant Herco
IMR TrailBoss
Alliant Bullseye

I am really excited to try the Tin Star I think this is going work well and burn clean as most VV powders do. I have used Tin Star for subsonic 450 Bushmaster and it worked well for that load and was clean burning. I see a lot of people using Unique and I also see a lot of people complaining how dirty it is at these low pressures. I currently don't have Unique but I have all the powders above.

I will update this thread with my results as I get them. I have brass, primers powder and bullets are inbound. I still need to locate a set of dies though. I would also ask if anyone has some old reloading manuals with 455 Webley data. If your comfortable sharing a copy of that data I would be grateful. If you not comfortable repeating that data here if you can simple share the book's identity that actually contains 455 Webley data I will seek out a copy to add to my library. Anyone that has reloaded 455 Webley your experience would be greatly appreciate too. Thanks!

So I finally hit on the right search terms in Google: "old reloading manual pdf" and I hit several forums with large lists of downloadable PDFs of old out of data reloading manuals. I found two so far with 455 Webley data. On was so old none of the powders were familiar to me but I found a copy of Modern Reloading by Richard Lee 1st edition (1996 so not that old) that had a nice set of data for 455 Webley using modern powders some of which are include in my list above. The data includes pressure data too so that should help me tune up QuickLoads to be a bit more accurate.

Hooda Thunkit said:

Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets, July 1958
View attachment 996601

View attachment 996602

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Thanks a bunch. That is some old data, No 6 nd 5066 have not been around for many moons.

So my dies showed up yesterday and I cleaned and sized 100 pieces of brass. I bought the 3-die set from Lee which included shell holder. The Lee dies were not a bad as I feared. I only have one other set of Lee dies and they do not get use very often at all. Most of mine are Dillon, RCBS, or Hornady. But the carbide sizing dies ran as smooth as my Dillon carbide so no complaints so far. I am now waiting for my bullets to show up so I can get exact measurements and determine actual seating depth so I can give my Quickloads works ups a final adjustment.

Over due update:

So the bullets finally showed up yesterday. I spent yesterday evening measuring and weighing the bullets and updating the data for the Mk II bullet entry in Quickloads. These bullets from Matt's bullets are a really faithful reproduction of the original Mk II as my entry was original based on dimensions I found on a historic print I got off the internet and it required only minor tweaks to bring it in line with the actual bullets received. I re-ran my earlier Quickloads calculations and things changed very little. The Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star still looks very promising in Quickloads and will be used in my first test batch.

This morning's project was to turn the new bullets into a first test batch of ammo. Quick loads predicted that 3.4 gr of N32C would produce 600 fps at only 8400 psi. This the historic velocity for this bullet and is well under the CIP spec'ed 13,000 psi max. I also loaded a sample of 3.6 gr and 3.8 gr that should get me ~620 fps (9400 psi) and ~640 fps (10,500psi) respectively. Quickloads predicts that 4.2 gr would be required to achieve a max pressure load with this powder and bullet and all my test loads are well under this. I am hopeful that by pushing the velocity up just a bit over the 600 fps of the historic/factor ammo I was shooting previously that it will bring the point of impact down just a touch. The gun shot high the first time out shooting factory ammo from On-target.


Matt's bullets, A 261gr hollow base round nose bullet, that is a very close clone of the original Mk II bullet used in the Webley's in military service. Loading on the single stage press went well. I weight each charge on a digital scale I don't typically crimp much but for these I put a fair amount of crimp (.005 under nominal diameter) but with with no crimp groove I could not go crazy.


For comparison, Left is the Factory load from On-Target. A 262 gr round load flat base bullet. Right is my Mk II clone.


I am excited to shoot these and get the chrono data and see how the accuracy is. I am hopeful they will shoot as well or better than the factory ammo. Since I am using Vihtavuori I fully expect them to be much cleaner that what ever On-Target was using, it was pretty filthy.

I will update again hopefully next weekend with more info.

Another Update:

Good and bad for this update:

The good, I didn't blow the gun up with my completely off the books, Quickloads only load data.

They shot fairly well, super clean as expected from Vihtavuori, and no leading issues at all from Matt's Bullets. Accuracy got better as the velocity increased though I was probably not in the best position for shooting accuracy kneeling to shoot through my Chrono on a short tripod. (had to pack light for this trip to the property). The first group was about a 7-inch 6-shot group at 15 yards and the last group was a 4-inch 6-shot group at 15 yards. I think it can get better.

The bad part was the velocity was roughly 50 fps slower for each load than QL's predicted and the velocity was not very consistent.

The load was:
Bullet: .455 diameter, 261gr Hollow Base Round Nose Bullet from Matt's Bullets
Brass: 455 Webley Mk II, Once fired StarLine
Primer: Wolf Large Pistol
Powder: Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star

Charge Weight: 3.4 gr
High Velocity: 590
Low Velocity: 519.6
Average Velocity: 554.4
Extreme Spread: 70.4
Standard Deviation: 22.3 (10-shots)

Charge Weight: 3.6 gr
High Velocity: 600
Low Velocity: 508.8
Average Velocity: 565.9
Extreme Spread: 91.2
Standard Deviation: 28.9 (10-shots)

Charge Weight: 3.8 gr
High Velocity: 640.8
Low Velocity: 527.7
Average Velocity: 585
Extreme Spread: 113.1
Standard Deviation: 34.8 (8-shots)

I think conditions were less than optimal for my old Shooting Chrony Alpha-Master. The sun was coming in and out of the clouds on me and I think that was causing some errors. Those numbers don't look great but I can't completely blame the sun either, I chorno'ed 6-rounds of factory ammo and it was pretty consistent although IIRC that was a period of shade. Interestingly if I throw out the highest and lowest for each of the three data sets the averages change by less than 3 fps but the ES all come down to ~50 fps and the Standard Deviation come down to 20 or less. This is close to what the factory measured. I think the sun may have played a role.

At this point I will take the data back to QuickLoads and tweak some things to get a closer match to my actual measured velocity and then probably try again with probably the 3.8 gr load and a ~4.0 gr load to see if I can get to my desired 600 fps or slightly faster. I am also going to increase the crimp some to see if I can get a little more consistent velocity. I think those hollow base bullet may be slipping out of the case pretty easy thus not developing the pressure fast enough.

Finally and the reason the last data set is only 8-shots it I took two rounds from that set and shot some water jugs in an attempt to catch a bullet. I had four 1-gallon milk in a line backed up by two 1/2 gallon jugs side by side. I really expected to catch the bullet in the third or fourth jug and it zipped through all four and one of the half gallon jugs, the second bullet did all four milk just and must missed one of the half gallon jugs as it was yawing to the left.. The bullet drove surprisingly straight for a round nose bullet that did not appear to expand or tumble Next time I will try wet paper or something.

Anyway I did recover a heap of the bullet from the dirt backstop. I love digging bullets out of anything.


Top three rows 16 of 30 Matt's bullets recovered
Bottom Row 6 of 6 for the On Target ammunition.
The rocks in the back stops are hard on the bullets. The rifling marks look clean and no indication of stripping. The hollow base bullets seem to be expanding well into the riflings.

-rambling, but more to come no doubt.

Another Test match this weekend. I made sure that the sun was behind the clouds before I shot to not effect my Chrono and the variability was still pretty larger.

I re shot my max load from the previous batch but has increased the crimp.

Charge Weight: 3.8 gr
High Velocity: 641.7
Low Velocity: 532.7
Average Velocity: 604.1
Extreme Spread: 109
Standard Deviation: 36.9 (10-shots)

Then I bump up another 0.2 gr

Charge Weight: 4.0 gr
High Velocity: 666.6
Low Velocity: 563.8
Average Velocity: 612.8
Extreme Spread: 102.8
Standard Deviation: 33.4 (10-shots)

The extreme spread is bad on both of these. I may have to try another powder or at least try a bit more crimp. I think some of this may be a result of shooting it through a 105 year old revolver but certainly not all of it. The Factor loaded 455 Webley I shot has an extreme spread of 64 fps over just 6 rds so the gun is definitely part of this but not all.

Interestingly these two load are the fastest I have shot but the point of impact did not move down but it did move right a bit. I think my next batch is going to be 3.8 gr with a bit more crimp and I will probably live with that unless things get worst accuracy wise.

GeoDudeFlorida said:

Try switching to Bullseye.

Click to expand...

I probably will, I have lots of bullseye in stock. I might also try Herco, that is what I am using in my Mk IV 38-200

Another long over due update. Finally got to shoot the two new loads using other powders in the Webley.

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The load was:
Bullet: .455 diameter, 261gr Hollow Base Round Nose Bullet from Matt's Bullets
OAL: 1.260
Crimp: .465
Brass: 455 Webley Mk II, Once fired StarLine
Primer: Wolf Large Pistol
Powder: Alliant Bullseye

Charge Weight: 3.0 gr
High Velocity: 614.9
Low Velocity: 581.8
Average Velocity: 597.5
Extreme Spread: 33.07
Standard Deviation: 12.84 (5-shots)

Charge Weight: 3.2 gr
High Velocity: 633.1
Low Velocity: 593.1
Average Velocity: 618.0
Extreme Spread: 39.99
Standard Deviation: 14.42 (6-shots)

Most consistent velocity yet but the accuracy was no better or worst than the Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star.

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The load was:
Bullet: .455 diameter, 261gr Hollow Base Round Nose Bullet from Matt's Bullets
OAL: 1.260
Crimp: .465
Brass: 455 Webley Mk II, Once fired StarLine
Primer: Wolf Large Pistol
Powder: Vihtavuori N320

Charge Weight: 2.9 gr
High Velocity: 524.6
Low Velocity: 494.5
Average Velocity: 510.4
Extreme Spread: 30.11
Standard Deviation: 10.094 (6-shots)

Charge Weight: 3.1 gr
High Velocity: 624.8
Low Velocity: 559.8
Average Velocity: 573.8
Extreme Spread: 64.98
Standard Deviation: 25.27 (6-shots)

The N320 was slower than Quickloads predicted but it was by far the most accurate loads I have shot to date, more accurate than anything I have reloaded and more accurate than the factory ammo I started with. Just slow.

Should have added these earlier


2.9 gr of N320 under a 260 gr HBRN bullet

3.1 gr of N320 under a 260 gr HBRN bullet

Notice how the slightly hotter load starts the string to the left, like most of the other loads. Both targets shot double action at 20 yards.

Ke5fbh said:

Just thought I'd chime in, I have an uncut 1918 mkVI. I have never fired it as for the longest time, the only ammo I could find was a couple dozen Kynoch rounds that someone gave me. Dont know the age of it or its history (storage ect) . A couple yrs ago I decided to cut some 45 LC brass to webley spec, and then decided that Schofield brass might be better. Then the whole project hit the back burner and I'm just now getting back to it. I've backordered some Starline brass, (when I started this project, Nobody made brass or ammo for it). I now have a couple hundred Matt's Bullets. And according to data I found, I'm gonna try some Herco powder, 4.2 grains as a starting load. According to my measurements that wont be too full but full enough to get fairly consistent results. SO....... has anybody here tried Herco for the 455? And if so what kind of results did you get?

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I have not tried Hero in my 455 Webley but it is my go to powder for my 38/200 Webley Mark V. Matt's bullet makea a good copy the 200gr MkI bullet sized correctly for the Webley.

IIRC it is one of the powders that had promised in my Quickloads work up, and I believe I have some old published data using Herco to. I just have not got around to trying it yet.