First Handgun for Personal Defense

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It’s a very personal issue, an EDC. Would really like to know how you decided on these three. And of the three, my choice is the G17 in any flavor but it checks all the squares in your list. But I would like to see how you pick up a striker fired weapon first. Does your finger go automatically to the side of the frame or into the trigger guard?

You say you are new to handguns, and you can find a lot of good information on what others have decided to carry or at least what they say they always carry in an online forum. But that is always good to take with some salt.

You can carry any of the pistols on your list. But would you? And why are you focused on capacity and aftermarket items for a carry weapon? Glocks work straight out of the box. They need sights and ammo. And the newer Gen5s don’t even need sights they are good to go.

IMHO, and it will be best to focus on:
1) what you will actually carry 24/7
2) what you can shoot the best with and manipulate quickly
Then focus on caliber and lastly capacity. As you can see I do not put a lot of faith in carrying the best pistol, just what’s best for me. It was stated before and bares repeating, your awareness will get you out of or keep you from getting into a bad situation a lot more than having the right pistol on your hip. Just because you strap on iron doesn’t make you immune to bad things.

I would greatly suggest you look into carry insurance. You will go to jail and you will see a judge during a shooting. You will in a sitting in a cell until you are cleared. And you will still need bail money and lawyer fees. I have both US Law Shield and USCCA.

And how are you going to practice with your new weapon? Ammo is scarce and expensive. Dry firing practice helps you learn your draw stroke and keep your finger off the bang switch. One reason I like my j frames, very easy to practice my trigger control and sight alignment without ammo. And reloads with snap caps of dummy rounds. But several pocket pistols like the G42, MP380, EC9, and Sig 365 do the same, just have to reset the trigger every time.

Good luck in your search, but I wouldn’t sweat too much over it. It’s just a tool, not a personal statement.

Lefty
What the advice you just gave about SD and costing $$$$$$$$ in legal fees is a SET UP to prevent the law-abiding from protecting himself just so powers that be can have BIG INCOMES on the backs of the law abiding. Those in power care not one thing about the VICTIMS, just keep the crime rate high, keeps the money rolling in.
 
FWIW, IMHO, the first variable to consider is your planned use of the gun. For a first gun and learning fundamentals, I recommend a medium-large to large frame revolver in .38 special/.357 mag, shooting standard .38 special. I am particularly fond of the S&W 686 or 686+ but the Ruger GP 100 is also excellent. This size of gun will keep felt recoil low and encourage good shooting habits. An additional benefit is that they will allow you to train both single- and double-action. I you like DA, that will allow an easy transition to DA and SA/DA semi-autos. If not, then staying with a striker-fired semi-auto or 1911 is a more likely down the road choice. Finally, .38 special is inexpensive and still easily found.

If you want to start with a semi-auto, I would lean toward a full-size pistol, like the Glock G17, Springfield XD Service, Sig 320, and S&W M&P, all of which are reasonably priced. New shooters almost always do better learning on a full-size pistol because of less felt recoil, easier grip, longer sight radius, and overall controllability. The 9mm is probably the best initial choice both for lower recoil and cost, and availability of ammo and pistols is improving. As I learned and trained extensively on 1911s well back in the last century, I find the grip angle of the Glock line a problem, but this will not be an issue for a new shooter whose muscle memory and conditioned reflex are not wedded to the1911 grip angle.

Your choice of a pure self-defense pistol will be largely determined by concealability and season. I carry a sub-compact or micro-compact in summer clothing and a compact or full-size gun for fall and winter wear. Since I'm 6'1", 240#, concealment is not a real issue with me but smaller guys may have issues with larger guns. For personal defense guns, the only modificationsI favor are sights and grips...a modified gun is usually questioned by prosecutors (and you will be carefully investigated by them if you ever have cause to use gun). I have never used a handgun for self defense since getting my first in 1973 and live in such a way as to minimize the likelihood of ever doing so. The only fights that you win are the ones you avoid.

As to brands, S&W and Ruger for revolvers and Springfield, Glock, S&W, H&K, Sig Sauer, and Beretta are all fine and reliable as are most 1911s. For 1911s, I am partial to older Colts and Springfields for mid-priced guns and to Ed Brown and Wilson Combat for custom and semi-custom.

Good luck,

Harry
The only problem living like sheep is the coyotes and wolves have a natural instinct to seek find slaughter and eat said sheep. After nearly losing my life and my family's lives one -35 degrees below zero cold black November nite I stopped being a sheep, I live a quiet keep to myself life but if that type of day or nite ever kicks in my front door again person ( S ) they will find a raging 1000# lion on the inside. Totally carnivorous!!!!
 
Not meaningful for an immediate physical stop of an attacker.

What is important is what is hit, and that is largely a matter of luck--more quick shots giving more luck.
Right you are, if the BAD happens, I will always aim for the hips, NOBODY goes anywhere with out legs, hit the spine, travel STOPS, EVEN if the bullet misses the spine it will shatter the pelvis. End of attack!!!!
 
What the advice you just gave about SD and costing $$$$$$$$ in legal fees is a SET UP to prevent the law-abiding from protecting himself just so powers that be can have BIG INCOMES on the backs of the law abiding. Those in power care not one thing about the VICTIMS, just keep the crime rate high, keeps the money rolling in.

Don’t know if you are just high from the Ivermectin, can’t read and comprehend my statement, or just a troll.
 
What the advice you just gave about SD and costing $$$$$$$$ in legal fees is a SET UP to prevent the law-abiding from protecting himself just so powers that be can have BIG INCOMES on the backs of the law abiding.
That statement is incredibly naive, and it does not reflect reality at all.

Right you are, if the BAD happens, I will always aim for the hips, NOBODY goes anywhere with out legs, hit the spine, travel STOPS, EVEN if the bullet misses the spine it will shatter the pelvis. End of attack!!!!
Bad advice. The subject of pelvic hits has been discussed a lot before. Use the search function.
 
Now for your 2nd gun...

Glock 19. Easier to conceal than the 17. Shoots just as well and can use the higher capacity 17rd and 33rd Glock mags.

I tried a Shield - didn't care for the trigger at all. Being left handed I didn't care for the single side, right hand only, thumb safety either.
Apex makes a drop in trigger for the Shield. Had mine not had the single side unusable (to me) safety, I would've swapped triggers.
The Apex trigger is a Glock style trigger which I find much easier to shoot with than S&W's hinged / jointed triggers.

https://www.apextactical.com/action-enhancement-trigger-duty-carry-kit-for-m-p-shield-2-0

I'm also more accustomed to Glock triggers and had no interest in learning the S&W trigger. I note (somewhat cynically) S&W finally adopted a Glock style trigger in the Shield Plus.
 
First things first, get rid of that horrible avatar. Don't need to look like a murderer who loves guns.

Next, the guns on your list are good choices. However there are tons of good choices. You need to handle a lot of guns so you make an informed decision. Also, consider how you will carry the gun on your person so you choose one that will fit your needs, and attire. Or, preferably, choose the gun you shoot best after a rental range outing, and then buy attire to conceal THAT gun.
 
The thought that you WILL go to jail after a self defense shooting is false. Some places it's more likely than others but even in the most liberal locations in the US it isnt a given. Ive investigated more than a few self defense shootings and havent seen one (legitimate self defense) shooter go to jail yet. I have seen badguys try to play the self defense card when they clearly werent and that not work. Those guys go to jail. But just avoid criminal activities that have a high likelihood of leading the shootings and you're good. But on more than one occasion I have driven the shooter to headquarters for an interview then driven them back home afterwards.

That being said a couple detective friends of mine have said that they've arrested and booked a few legitimate self defense shooters before. The reason was the shooter decided to not say anything until they spoke to their lawyer. Not even a general short statement claiming self defense. In those cases they only had the scene, maybe the badguy's story (who isnt likely to tell police the truth), and witnesses who dont reallt know what happened and are notorious for making big assumptions. And unless you REALLY know your lawyer, like go to each others birthdays, etc..., they arent getting up at 1 AM or flying home early from a fishing trip, to get your story heard. And hopefully all the evidence at the scene that would help you was cataloged since it wasn't pointed out as being pertinent. So these guys ended up spending a week or two in jail until their story was heard and they were released, when they would have been released the day of if they had at least given some sort of statement.

Now dont get me wrong. If you want to be quiet until you talk to your lawyer, that's not a bad idea. But Ican tell you when I got into a shooting 3 years ago I spent over 20 minutes explaining a incident that took less than 45 seconds. Because Ill be damned if some witness who doesn't know what's going one, only saw some of the situation, and is filling in gaps with assumptions, is the one setting the path of the investigation.
 
The only problem living like sheep is the coyotes and wolves have a natural instinct to seek find slaughter and eat said sheep. After nearly losing my life and my family's lives one -35 degrees below zero cold black November nite I stopped being a sheep, I live a quiet keep to myself life but if that type of day or nite ever kicks in my front door again person ( S ) they will find a raging 1000# lion on the inside. Totally carnivorous!!!!

Ah...yet another internet warrior telling us how dangerous he can be. My post was about recommended first guns, not advice not to defend yourself if attacked.

BTW, as a carnivore, you'll have a tough time explaining to the police and the prosecutor why you are eating the person you just shot.

Harry, laughing at your posturing
 
One Question?? Does all that wide-area support mean the Glocks don't have a long term existence????

Seriously? The 1911 and the AR15 both enjoy “wide area support” too.

I understand a lot of folks have an irrational “hatred” of anything Glock, but you cannot deny their documented resilience and longevity:

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2017/09/glock-17-pistol-torture-test/

And if your Glock frame/slide ever does break, for any reason, at any time, send it back to Glock for full restoration…usually for $0.00
 
Call me crazy but I could never recommend a semi-automatic pistol that lacks a safety to a new shooter.
 
The only problem living like sheep is the coyotes and wolves have a natural instinct to seek find slaughter and eat said sheep. After nearly losing my life and my family's lives one -35 degrees below zero cold black November nite I stopped being a sheep, I live a quiet keep to myself life but if that type of day or nite ever kicks in my front door again person ( S ) they will find a raging 1000# lion on the inside. Totally carnivorous!!!!
Really. Wow. Sorry you went through something that bad but seriously? This is your response?

Valium
 
The thought that you WILL go to jail after a self defense shooting is false. Some places it's more likely than others but even in the most liberal locations in the US it isnt a given. Ive investigated more than a few self defense shootings and havent seen one (legitimate self defense) shooter go to jail yet. I have seen badguys try to play the self defense card when they clearly werent and that not work. Those guys go to jail. But just avoid criminal activities that have a high likelihood of leading the shootings and you're good. But on more than one occasion I have driven the shooter to headquarters for an interview then driven them back home afterwards.

That being said a couple detective friends of mine have said that they've arrested and booked a few legitimate self defense shooters before. The reason was the shooter decided to not say anything until they spoke to their lawyer. Not even a general short statement claiming self defense. In those cases they only had the scene, maybe the badguy's story (who isnt likely to tell police the truth), and witnesses who dont reallt know what happened and are notorious for making big assumptions. And unless you REALLY know your lawyer, like go to each others birthdays, etc..., they arent getting up at 1 AM or flying home early from a fishing trip, to get your story heard. And hopefully all the evidence at the scene that would help you was cataloged since it wasn't pointed out as being pertinent. So these guys ended up spending a week or two in jail until their story was heard and they were released, when they would have been released the day of if they had at least given some sort of statement.

Now dont get me wrong. If you want to be quiet until you talk to your lawyer, that's not a bad idea. But Ican tell you when I got into a shooting 3 years ago I spent over 20 minutes explaining a incident that took less than 45 seconds. Because Ill be damned if some witness who doesn't know what's going one, only saw some of the situation, and is filling in gaps with assumptions, is the one setting the path of the investigation.

Sure, the 5-0 is going to take one look at the shooter, tell if he is the good guy or not. And since he isn’t willing to give a statement, why they will just let him go and allow him to come down to the PD when it’s convenient for him. That is straight out of Mayberry RFD thinking! Someone is shot or/and dead, the suspect is not talking without a lawyer, their butt is sitting in a jail for awhile. Sorry, but even the good ol boy system ain’t going to help you.

Lefty
 
Sure, the 5-0 is going to take one look at the shooter, tell if he is the good guy or not. And since he isn’t willing to give a statement, why they will just let him go and allow him to come down to the PD when it’s convenient for him. That is straight out of Mayberry RFD thinking! Someone is shot or/and dead, the suspect is not talking without a lawyer, their butt is sitting in a jail for awhile. Sorry, but even the good ol boy system ain’t going to help you.

Lefty

I guess our experiences differ. In the instances that you have close first hand knowledge of, how long did the defense shooter stay in jail? What charges were they booked on?
 
I guess our experiences differ. In the instances that you have close first hand knowledge of, how long did the defense shooter stay in jail? What charges were they booked on?

When have you seen a suspect of a shooting walk away after not wanting to give a statement? What is your first hand experience of handling shootings? Did you allow the shooter to give a statement and walk? If they didn’t give a statement and want to talk to a lawyer, did you get one and bring them down to the scene or have the guy wait in a holding cell?

Please, I would like to know where you worked where first responding units declared the shooter guilty or not guilty and allowed them to go their way. You act like a shooting is a open and shut case. 95% of shooting in civilian world, they knew each other and it was usually extending from personal grudges (MacYoung and Miller site these stats in their books, before you ask). Only 5% is actual “crime” driven. And you are going to say that the shooter, if the person shot loves or dies, isn’t going to jail? When an investigation hasn’t even began and the suspect hasn’t been in front of a judge? Wow
 
When have you seen a suspect of a shooting walk away after not wanting to give a statement? What is your first hand experience of handling shootings? Did you allow the shooter to give a statement and walk? If they didn’t give a statement and want to talk to a lawyer, did you get one and bring them down to the scene or have the guy wait in a holding cell?

Please, I would like to know where you worked where first responding units declared the shooter guilty or not guilty and allowed them to go their way. You act like a shooting is a open and shut case. 95% of shooting in civilian world, they knew each other and it was usually extending from personal grudges (MacYoung and Miller site these stats in their books, before you ask). Only 5% is actual “crime” driven. And you are going to say that the shooter, if the person shot loves or dies, isn’t going to jail? When an investigation hasn’t even began and the suspect hasn’t been in front of a judge? Wow

I cant remember any of the self defense shootings Ive investigated where the shooter did not want to give a statement. It might have happened over the years, but I dont remember it at this time. Like I said before my detective friends have said they have had that and some of those people were booked. Ive never gotten a lawyer for someone. Again that was covered in my original statement.

Around here investigations are done prior to people going in front of a judge. The investigation starts the minute an officer arrives on scene. Actually in some cases it can start before units arrive on scene. The investigation requires probable cause that a crime has been committed before charges are brought and the person is booked into jail (where they see the judge). Just because you shot someone doesnt constitute probable cause for aggravated assault or murder. Self defense claims have to be disproven or at least found lacking as self defense is a legal justification for shooting someone. Also, depending on the situation the shooter might not be a "suspect" in the report. They could be labelled as the "victim".

But from your response I have a suspicion that you arent involved in law enforcement. So are your thoughts based on actual experience or on how you think things actually go? Ive investigated more than a few shootings in my career and have been on the other side as well. I can tell you for certain that not everyone goes to jail and sees a judge after a shooting.
 
All i can say is for a first time handgun owner i would stay away from striker fired non safety pistols like a Glock. too much can go wrong for a novice.

A J frame revolver in .38 will offer very good protection with minimal effort on the owners part and upkeep is super simple.

If you do want a semi auto i would not recommend anything over a 9mm as a start so the recoil is kept minimal for training.

I personally like and carry CZ75 variants in both full size for home defense and compacts for carry.
 
I cant remember any of the self defense shootings Ive investigated where the shooter did not want to give a statement. It might have happened over the years, but I dont remember it at this time. Like I said before my detective friends have said they have had that and some of those people were booked. Ive never gotten a lawyer for someone. Again that was covered in my original statement.

Around here investigations are done prior to people going in front of a judge. The investigation starts the minute an officer arrives on scene. Actually in some cases it can start before units arrive on scene. The investigation requires probable cause that a crime has been committed before charges are brought and the person is booked into jail (where they see the judge). Just because you shot someone doesnt constitute probable cause for aggravated assault or murder. Self defense claims have to be disproven or at least found lacking as self defense is a legal justification for shooting someone. Also, depending on the situation the shooter might not be a "suspect" in the report. They could be labelled as the "victim".

But from your response I have a suspicion that you arent involved in law enforcement. So are your thoughts based on actual experience or on how you think things actually go? Ive investigated more than a few shootings in my career and have been on the other side as well. I can tell you for certain that not everyone goes to jail and sees a judge after a shooting.

OK, this is where we are are “discussing” the two different things. You are correct about what might happen AFTER you see a judge. But please tell me, and the viewers,1) what happens to the suspect RIGHT AFTER the incident 2) where the suspect is going to be staying until he sees a judge. You seem to lay out the scene that the suspect is let go and will see the judge at a later date. It’s been my personal and professional experience that that isn’t true. The suspect will remain in custody, and can be held on banishing a weapon alone.

I talk to my lawyer, that the USCCA covers, in every city I have moved to and even go to another for a second professional opinion. It’s been free so far. They check out my EDC and we talk about what to expect. And every lawyer I have talked to tells me the same thing, you will be held until you are arranged and see a judge. I have talked to active detectives in Cincinnati and Columbus, and they say the same thing, you will be held until you see a judge.

Your comments seem belittling towards my comments and my career in law enforcement. And my hastily responses can come off wrong at times. Either one of us could just be a meter maid or the cafeteria help with our detective friends as our guidance. But After 30 years serving, with several broken bones, worn joints, “issues”, and a sick sense of humor what I did before being medically retired doesn’t matter. Either of us have to prove ourselves to the other, or at least I don’t feel like I need to. I’ve wasted too much time as it is, life is too short.

But I think up this should clear some stuff up, you are talking about after seeing a judge. I’m talking about right after the shot.

But thank you for your serve, both to our country and to your community.
 
OK, this is where we are are “discussing” the two different things. You are correct about what might happen AFTER you see a judge. But please tell me, and the viewers,1) what happens to the suspect RIGHT AFTER the incident 2) where the suspect is going to be staying until he sees a judge. You seem to lay out the scene that the suspect is let go and will see the judge at a later date. It’s been my personal and professional experience that that isn’t true. The suspect will remain in custody, and can be held on banishing a weapon alone.

I talk to my lawyer, that the USCCA covers, in every city I have moved to and even go to another for a second professional opinion. It’s been free so far. They check out my EDC and we talk about what to expect. And every lawyer I have talked to tells me the same thing, you will be held until you are arranged and see a judge. I have talked to active detectives in Cincinnati and Columbus, and they say the same thing, you will be held until you see a judge.

Your comments seem belittling towards my comments and my career in law enforcement. And my hastily responses can come off wrong at times. Either one of us could just be a meter maid or the cafeteria help with our detective friends as our guidance. But After 30 years serving, with several broken bones, worn joints, “issues”, and a sick sense of humor what I did before being medically retired doesn’t matter. Either of us have to prove ourselves to the other, or at least I don’t feel like I need to. I’ve wasted too much time as it is, life is too short.

But I think up this should clear some stuff up, you are talking about after seeing a judge. I’m talking about right after the shot.

But thank you for your serve, both to our country and to your community.

After the shooting they go to headquarters and are interviewed by detectives. From there they are either booked into jail or released and the case is submitted to the county attorneys office for review.

So did your department book every self defense shooter? Even the cut and dry cases? What about cut and dry officer involved shootings, was the officer booked?

Sorry if I assumed you weren't a cop but I've had these types of discussions with cops all around the country and none have been surprised that good shoots don't involve the shooter being booked into jail.
 
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To the OP, get carry insurance and go talk to the lawyer on the insurance’s list. It’s normally free, but we’ll worth it if you have to pay. Your lawyer will answer your questions and tell you what you should do and shouldn’t do and give you advice on your EDC(if they are shooters and normally they are if working with the insurance). Mine helped shed light into several internet and shooting forums banter and myths. And not just from one lawyer.

Also, Mas Ayoob has several good articles and books out on the subject. It’s mostly worsted case senecios, but gives you an idea. I read one of his first articles (on the subject) way back in the middle 80s in Combat Handguns, and it was eye opening!

Also, relax and enjoy your new shooting hobby.

Lefty
 
First things first, get rid of that horrible avatar. Don't need to look like a murderer who loves guns.

Next, the guns on your list are good choices. However there are tons of good choices. You need to handle a lot of guns so you make an informed decision. Also, consider how you will carry the gun on your person so you choose one that will fit your needs, and attire. Or, preferably, choose the gun you shoot best after a rental range outing, and then buy attire to conceal THAT gun.
Most excellent advice, in full agreement with you.
 
There is one thing most of us ( myself included, until a lot of testing proved positive results ) fail to consider, a 45 caliber always creates a BIG HOLE in whatever it hits wither it expands or not, the shockwave in it's self is 90% trumitizing upon impact. Two Korean vets ( knew both personally ) would, rarely, tell about the effect 45 ACP bullets would have on impacting North Koreans and Chinese. Hits in shoulders, legs or other parts of body would literally up end them, all effort to fight would vanish. A nigh on half inch hole in an animal or human being allows a lot of life-sustaining loss of body fluids. End of gamw e.
In the report of the 1904 trials that resulted in the adoption of the .45ACP by the US Army, Major LaGarde stated: "We know of no projectile launched from a handgun that will reliably stop a determined adversary if it traverses soft tissue alone." He did go on to note that many individuals are so demoralized by the realization of being shot that they drop out of the fight with wounds that are medically superficial.
 
a 45 caliber always creates a BIG HOLE in whatever it hits wither it expands or not, the shockwave in it's self is 90% trumitizing upon impact.
The "shockwave" of a handgun bullet does nothing.

Hits in shoulders, legs or other parts of body would literally up end them,
Were that true, few people could hold on to the gun when firing.

A nigh on half inch hole in an animal or human being allows a lot of life-sustaining loss of body fluids.
That is not meaningful for an immediate physical stop in a defensive situation.
 
In the report of the 1904 trials that resulted in the adoption of the .45ACP by the US Army, Major LaGarde stated: "We know of no projectile launched from a handgun that will reliably stop a determined adversary if it traverses soft tissue alone." He did go on to note that many individuals are so demoralized by the realization of being shot that they drop out of the fight with wounds that are medically superficial.
If I have read reports that were truthfully written, the exact reason the U.S. Military dropped the use of 38 caliber handguns and adopted the 45 ACP was during the Philippines resistance 38 caliber would not stop attacking rebel natives, but the 45 LC and 45 ACP would reliablely do so, also on my own close attention watching the reaction of animals shot by someone close the " shockwave " did in fact have a definite effect on said animal, but only if standing still or slowly moving. If not all bets are off. I am fully aware loss of body fluids WILL NOT stop an attack, neither will a shot thru the heart, in fact I have shot several large game animals thru the heart and seen them run a considerable distance before expiring. Hip shots not effective??? I don't take much stock in past service members war stories when the talk is constant, they who speak rarely about such happenings, I do believe, life gives us choices to believe or not to believe. Personal experience is best of all.
 
If I have read reports that were truthfully written, the exact reason the U.S. Military dropped the use of 38 caliber handguns and adopted the 45 ACP was during the Philippines resistance 38 caliber would not stop attacking rebel natives, but the 45 LC and 45 ACP would reliablely do so,
Folklore.
 
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