Buying a ghost gun before the ban

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But counties, such as San Diego for example, are working on prohibiting unserialized 80%
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It will be interesting to see how they do this and how it plays out in the courts. The BATF handles the 80% issue by essentially ruling that the items do NOT meet the definition of a firearm and are therefore not regulated. Trying to do the opposite by trying to come up with a workable definition for something whose main qualification is that it's not officially a firearm and then regulate it will be a lot harder.

I suspect that it will end up just being a complete ban on homebuilds.
 
jag22 said:
Aside from all the terminology and legal discussion, consider this. I watched a video on completing one of those 80% receivers, it ain’t easy. If you think you’re going finish it off in your garage, think again. You really need to be an experienced machinist and have some very expensive and technical equipment.
I wonder how many have been ruined tossed aside.
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The easily-available jig sets have made this doable in the home workshop. All you need, in addition to the jigs, is a drill press and a cabinet router (and you can use a hand-held drill in lieu of the drill press). That is, maybe $400 in equipment if you don't already have any of this stuff.

It doesn't take a lot of skill, but it does take practice. Figure you won't be completely happy with your first one (although it will probably be usable). For the next one, you'll have learned from your mistakes.
 
RickD427 said:
Additionally, Under California's AB-879, beginning on July 1, 2024 it becomes illegal to:

1) Possess any firearm precursor part (which includes unfinished 80% receivers) if the person is prohibited from possessing firearms.

2) Sell, or transfer, any firearms precursor parts except through a dealer.

3) Bring into California firearms precursor parts that were lawfully obtained in another state.

California is a very politically nutso state and a lot of localities are attempting to create local bans. California does has state preemption of firearms laws (refer to California Government Code 5071), but that really isn't stopping the effort.
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Thanks for clarifying. I completely forgot about that... and that was a big omission on my part.
 
While one can complete a Polymer 80 build in 30 minutes or less, It usually isn't the best finish or the most reliable. Unless of course you have plenty of experience as a machinist or gun smith. It normally take me 30 minutes from start to finish to complete one. Mine are built with First Time Quality and are finished as well as a factory Glock frame.

I am a member on the Marine Gun Builder Forum and have had to help plenty of people get their builds working. The two biggest mistakes I see new builders make is that they rush the build and don't finish the recoil spring channel correctly or they rush and get the pin holes off. The second issue I see is the use of aftermarket frame and slide parts. Most aftermarket parts kits are out of spec when compared to OEM Glock parts.

And no matter what type of firearm you build at home, whether you use an 80% receiver/frame, or build from scratch, you MUST have a working knowledge of how the gun you are building works to be successful.


And to stay on topic, I haven't stopped, slowed down, or increased the amount of 80% or other home built firearms since the rule change was proposed. The proposed rule changes will end up in court and there has also been quite a few in Congress that has told the ATF to back off since only Congress has the authority to pass laws.
 
I was given a small caterpillar toy. It was made on an inexpensive home laser scanner and made on a printer by a 12 year old.. It has fully articulated joints and details that are hard to believe. The accuracy of printing and the joints and being made almost internally are astounding. With some internal supports and more durable materials is home printing of whole receivers not far off (or already here)?.
 
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Basically ''ghost guns'' are AR15 lower receivers that were purchased 80% completed. The end user must possess a router,had purchased a jig and specific router bits to complete this receiver. Basically this can take about two hours to complete this lower receiver to install the trigger, sear etc. This receiver does not have a serial number or any type of registration, but so far they are not illegal. One may not sell or give one away w/o breaking quite a few laws,, both federal and state. Sleepy Joe definitely wants to ban these 80% receivers.
 
12Bravo20 said:
It's already here at least for Glock and Sig 320 clones.
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This really seems like the beginning of a major (if not total) loss of control for those attempting to restrict arms. Again consider who really wins or loses
 
jag22 said:
Aside from all the terminology and legal discussion, consider this. I watched a video on completing one of those 80% receivers, it ain’t easy. If you think you’re going finish it off in your garage, think again. You really need to be an experienced machinist and have some very expensive and technical equipment.
I wonder how many have been ruined tossed aside.
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My 80% 1911 build took me a few months to finish. Namely because nearly every part required some level of hand fitting. As long as the kits do not become illegal in the next few years, I would like to complete my own Glock 19 knock off.
 
vintovka said:
I was given a small caterpillar toy. It was made on an inexpensive home laser scanner and made on a printer by a 12 year old.. It has fully articulated joints and details that are hard to believe. The accuracy of printing and the joints and being made almost internally are astounding. With some internal supports and more durable materials is home printing of whole receivers not far off (or already here)?.
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https://slate.com/technology/2021/02/3d-printed-semi-automatic-rifle-fgc-9.amp
 
vintovka said:
This really seems like the beginning of a major (if not total) loss of control for those attempting to restrict arms...
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That would indeed be great. The entire concept of “Gun Control” going the way of the dinosaur do to being overwhelmed by events. Kinda like the “Horse and Buggy Lobby” going extinct due to the proliferation of cars.
 
CapnMac said:
If in [previous time period] 0 of a thing are found, and in [subsequent time period] n are found, the increase will be n * 100 "percent" by definition. Yesterday, 0, today 1, a 100% increase.
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This is why they don’t have COVID numbers on the upper right of the TV screen everyday and they just talk percentages day by day. If the daily number can’t be sensationalized they do things like compare them to “ a year ago today..” or whatever sounds worse.
 
loadedround said:
One may not sell or give one away w/o breaking quite a few laws,, both federal and state.
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That's highly debatable. There's no federal law that says you cannot sell or give away a gun that you built for personal use (for which a serial number is not required). This presupposes that you are not doing this as a business, and that the item in question is not regulated by the NFA. State laws might be more restrictive, but not in most states.
 
AlexanderA said:
That's highly debatable. There's no federal law that says you cannot sell or give away a gun that you built for personal use (for which a serial number is not required). This presupposes that you are not doing this as a business, and that the item in question is not regulated by the NFA. State laws might be more restrictive, but not in most states.
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If the goal is to further diminish respect for law CA is in the lead as they they have "banned" giving ANY gun away without Govt approval. Might as well tax water use. Wait too late!!
 
And, of course, all of this is incredibly divisive.
We have this phrase, which is never actually defined (other than presumptively), .
Then, that ill-defined "bad thing" is called to be banned.

Because the terms used have not more meaning than "fruminous bandersnatch" they become further divisive as both proponnents and opponents argue over definitions of the imaginary.

And, it's entirely human nature to take sides in a given argument;especially one overlaid with potential criminality (by way of banning).

So, you get those arguing if the bandersnatch is fruminous or not; whether a bandersnatch is or isn't a boojum, and a group going, "if it's banned, it's criminal, and I'm no criminal." And all to no need at all.

And, what had been a generally united group is now fractured and accusative

Whether that's by design, or just ordinary human stubbornness is beyond THR's scope, Other than that 'we" ought recognize these wedge issues for what they are--ways to weaken us through division. .
 
AlexanderA said:
That's highly debatable. There's no federal law that says you cannot sell or give away a gun that you built for personal use (for which a serial number is not required). This presupposes that you are not doing this as a business, and that the item in question is not regulated by the NFA. State laws might be more restrictive, but not in most states.
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This is correct as far as federal law goes. As always, check your state laws.
 
@CapnMac Spot on as usual. The old saying "United we stand, divided we fall" fits this type of situation very well. No matter if you like or dislike a certain type of firearm, you should still fight to keep them from being banned.
 
I can not remember the name of that idiot Jim something or other, on Youtube driving in his truck doing a video saying that get it out of your mind you can not do an 80 percent lower if you are not a tool and die man. LOL What a total idiot he was. With a drill and router I did four no issues.
 
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In a way, this fixation on "ghost guns" is a distraction for the antigunners. The real reason that gun control won't work in this country is the huge number of perfectly normal, serialized guns. The horse is out of the barn, and has been for many, many years.
 
AlexanderA said:
In a way, this fixation on "ghost guns" is a distraction for the antigunners. The real reason that gun control won't work in this country is the huge number of perfectly normal, serialized guns. The horse is out of the barn, and has been for many, many years.
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If govt really had the goal of public safety they would actually punish those who physically harm us instead of trying to control inanimate objects.
 
12Bravo20 said:
While one can complete a Polymer 80 build in 30 minutes or less, It usually isn't the best finish or the most reliable. Unless of course you have plenty of experience as a machinist or gun smith. It normally take me 30 minutes from start to finish to complete one. Mine are built with First Time Quality and are finished as well as a factory Glock frame.

I am a member on the Marine Gun Builder Forum and have had to help plenty of people get their builds working. The two biggest mistakes I see new builders make is that they rush the build and don't finish the recoil spring channel correctly or they rush and get the pin holes off. The second issue I see is the use of aftermarket frame and slide parts. Most aftermarket parts kits are out of spec when compared to OEM Glock parts.

And no matter what type of firearm you build at home, whether you use an 80% receiver/frame, or build from scratch, you MUST have a working knowledge of how the gun you are building works to be successful.


And to stay on topic, I haven't stopped, slowed down, or increased the amount of 80% or other home built firearms since the rule change was proposed. The proposed rule changes will end up in court and there has also been quite a few in Congress that has told the ATF to back off since only Congress has the authority to pass laws.
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I have rebuilt engines before and ported and polished my own heads, so while I am not a professional, I am capable. I just bought a couple of P80 kits and joined the Marine Gun Builder forum. The hard part is that I am a Washington resident. I looked at the WA law and can't understand why they think my completed P80 is going to be illegal. My intention of building a P80 is not to have a non-registered firearm. It is to build an entirely custom pistol to my specs for a reasonable price. I would gladly affix a serial number to the frame if that was required.

The challenging part is finding the components for my build since I am doing mine in .40 S&W. Going for an OD green frame, with OEM internals, and an RMR ready slide. I've heard both good and bad about the Rock Slide slides.
 
Trey Veston said:
I have rebuilt engines before and ported and polished my own heads, so while I am not a professional, I am capable. I just bought a couple of P80 kits and joined the Marine Gun Builder forum. The hard part is that I am a Washington resident. I looked at the WA law and can't understand why they think my completed P80 is going to be illegal. My intention of building a P80 is not to have a non-registered firearm. It is to build an entirely custom pistol to my specs for a reasonable price. I would gladly affix a serial number to the frame if that was required.

The challenging part is finding the components for my build since I am doing mine in .40 S&W. Going for an OD green frame, with OEM internals, and an RMR ready slide. I've heard both good and bad about the Rock Slide slides.
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Yes anything for building a G22 or G23 are going to be even harder to find than stuff for a G17/19 build.

I will NEVER recommend anyone waste their money on Rock Slide USA junk. And yes I speak from personal experience. I made the mistake of buying a G23 slide form Rock Slide.

Here are some of the problems you run into with that junk:
  • Excess Cerakote everywhere
  • Firing pin hole, guide rod opening, and extractor grooves machined out of tolerance.
  • Burrs everywhere to include the safety plunger hole, firing pin channel, and extractor plunger channel.
  • Slides are not properly heat treated/tempered and are iron to cracking/breaking.
I have seen too many Rock Slide slide crack/break at the slide stop notch and guide rod opening. The ported slides want to break on top right in front of the barrel hood- the peal back like a banana peel.

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY ROCK SLIDE JUNK!!!!!!!!
RS failure 1.jpg
 
I was asking about the slides on another forum and one of the guys said he decided to take a chance on them and got about 100 rounds through his when it did this...

IMG_20210909_120655912_HDR.jpg

IMG_20210909_133736256.jpg

img_20210909_120655912_hdr-jpg.80532


img_20210909_133736256-jpg.80530
 
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