Winchester exporting ammunition

Well, my LGS has plenty of Winchester ammo….

IIRC in the past Winchester contracted with some foreign manufacturers to supply "Winchester" ammo being sold in the US.

Yep, it would be a damn shame if a company stayed afloat by making a profit by fulfilling their contractual obligations.
Don’t worry folks, the way things are going the commies will dictate who gets ammo soon. Then you can join them in badmouthing the Capitalists and helping to drive them out of business.

Slamfire said:

There is actually no shortage of brass or ammunition, if our Corporate Elites had not banned importation of Chinese and Russian ammunition and components.

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I did not know corporate elites could ban ammo? I thought it was just liberals in the government.

Ah, but one doesn’t bite the hand that feeds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra

John Joseph said:

IIRC in the past Winchester contracted with some foreign manufacturers to supply "Winchester" ammo being sold in the US.

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I don't doubt it. As I understand it, they had a run of 7.62x25 Tokarev, which was actually S&B ammo in Winchester boxes.

I was under the impression that all "Winchester Metric" branded European caliber ammos were made for Winchester by companies in Europe.

ozarkhillbilly said:

I did not know corporate elites could ban ammo? I thought it was just liberals in the government.

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Plutocrats hedge their bets, by betting on red and black. The safest bet has more chips on it, but don't doubt, every Politician gets goodwill money. some more than others.

Check out the funding sources of your favorite Congressmen https://www.opensecrets.org/

Winchester is doing what is best for it. It knows we will be here waiting when it gets around to us. Even though, I agree with some, WWB is one of my least favorite...the brass is fine, but it's some of the dirtiest commercial ammo I find.

I wonder if Winchesters current, massive, recall will affect overseas sales. A defect in any name brand product is something must everybody remembers (like Firestone 500's???)

vintovka said:

I wonder if Winchesters current, massive, recall will affect overseas sales. A defect in any name brand product is something must everybody remembers (like Firestone 500's???)

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There have been massive recalls by most all ammo manufacturers over the years

John Joseph said:

IIRC in the past Winchester contracted with some foreign manufacturers to supply "Winchester" ammo being sold in the US.

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The WWB 55 grain FMJ Q3330 was marked Made in USA. Q3330A was marked made in Israel by IMI.

jdh said:

The WWB 55 grain FMJ Q3330 was marked Made in USA. Q3330A was marked made in Israel by IMI.

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IMI makes some pretty good stuff!
In my AR unit we still had 1911s and got some TZZ (Israeli) headstamp ACP after the Winchester stock was depleted. They had a lot of oomph! IIRC.

berettaprofessor said:

Winchester is doing what is best for it. It knows we will be here waiting when it gets around to us. Even though, I agree with some, WWB is one of my least favorite...the brass is fine, but it's some of the dirtiest commercial ammo I find.

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Not all WWB is created equal.
Manufactured for a price point I found components could vary depending on the supply chain,
I've had brand new WWB that shot filthy and even the brass looked corroded. I've also seen WWB that looked ad performed equal to the fabled Western Super X. They all went bang so there is some truth in Winchester's advertising. I find the odds with Winchester far better than with Remington.

"Winchester sales were $404.0 million for the three months ended June 30, 2021 compared to $192.6 million for the same period in 2020, an increase of $211.4 million, or 110%. The increase was due to higher ammunition sales to commercial customers ($145.9 million) and military customers ($60.0 million), both of which includes ammunition produced at Lake City, and law enforcement agencies ($5.5 million)."

"Winter Storm Uri
Olin’s Freeport, TX facility was affected by Winter Storm Uri and was forced to halt production due to the lack of electrical power, natural gas, and other raw materials. All of Olin’s Freeport operations were impacted. In addition, production at Olin’s Plaquemine, LA; St. Gabriel, LA; Oxford, MS; and McIntosh, AL facilities were also negatively impacted. As a result, by February 18, 2021, Olin declared Force Majeure on all chemical product shipments from North America. As of March 31, 2021, our facilities had returned to operation."

Info taken from their last 10Q published 7/28/21. Considering the past two years I think Olin is doing everything they can to flood the commercial market.

Winchester has been selling ammo around the world for many years, Like many other American companies. I don't think it would be fair to expect them to not at least try to supply "All" their customers the best they can. Someday, All this BS will be over and Winchester will have to compete "World Wide" to stay in business.
As far as Winchester quality. I can say I'm about as old as most people can get and still shoot and have fun. I can honestly say I don't think I've ever had a Winchester cartridge, off the shelf, fail in any way. I can say the same for Remington and Federal. Now, You will have some here say different. But, that's them. Not me. Shoot and have fun.

Favorable exchange rates in other countries can also be a strong motivator to do business in another country before your own COO.

I wouldn’t necessarily do it as an individual but I would definitely as a corporation.

There are businesses in the US that exclusively produce items for foreign markets. Items that we could potentially use here in the US.

tws3b2 said:

I can honestly say I don't think I've ever had a Winchester cartridge, off the shelf, fail in any way. I can say the same for Remington and Federal.

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I've had Winchester White Box 9mm have significantly different 'bang', than the rest of the magazine, and the rd not hit paper- it went about a ft low at 10 yds, I had to check the backboard to ensure it left the barrel. More of a 'bimpff'.

I've had Remington UMC do even worse, with a 'pishat' noise. My shooting buddy saw it tumble to the ground before reaching the target.
My pistol shot the rounds before, and after those (after inspecting things to make absolutely sure it was nothing with the barrel or slide).

Not powder charge or primer related, but Winchester White Box .32acp is flat-nosed, at least the box I bought was. With the 3 older .32's I had (Savage 1907, Mauser 1914, CZ 27), not a single successful feed from a magazine when fired. With Fiocchi, Geco, PPU or Blazer roundnose, not a single failure to feed.

I strongly prefer S&B or Fiocchi 9mm for consistency, and I will never buy another rd of WWB .32.

I avoid WWB if I can.. especially in .22LR and WMR. Their other ammo has been adequate.

earlthegoat2 said:

Favorable exchange rates in other countries can also be a strong motivator to do business in another country before your own COO.

I wouldn’t necessarily do it as an individual but I would definitely as a corporation.

There are businesses in the US that exclusively produce items for foreign markets. Items that we could potentially use here in the US.

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Just as there are companies in other countries that produce goods exclusively for export to the US. earlthegoat2 makes a good point. In addition to exchange rates, thing like technology and in some cases emissions laws dictates what is shipped in and out of countries.

twarr1 said:

According to Panjiva Inc, the supply chain intelligence company, Winchester has been exporting ammunition from the USA;

“Winchester has logged 107 shipments since January 2020. Most went to Australia to fulfill a contract Winchester secured with NIOA, the country’s largest small-arms supplier. Nigel Everingham, NIOA’s chief operating officer, said he could not disclose how much ammo Winchester is supplying.
A few shipments also went to Belgium and Israel.”

While it’s not good for American buyers, Winchester is in business to make money. What are your thoughts?
Personally, I’ve seen Winchester quality drop dramatically in the last few years to the point I avoid it when possible.

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I don’t use Winchester ammo, so don’t care. They’re in business to make money.

If an American company that can export anything is an oversight that will probably be stopped
now that it is made public.
As far as Winchester ammo, I have no experience with it in the past few years. But I do
have a note above my reloading bench that says, Don't buy any more Winchester cases.
Then that is up in the air because you never know who really makes their cases, could
be outsourced to China.

Personally I think contracts they have outweigh and or take precedence over the US civilian marketplace. You have to fulfill your contracts if you want to get business in the future.