Lost in the woods 1972

CoalTrain49 said:

I worked as a surveyor for 40 years. People laugh when I tell them I was truly lost once in a Juniper forest in N. AZ south of the Grand Canyon. Fortunately I knew how to use the sun and time of day to get a decent bearing. I also had a topo map with the some landmarks and contours on it. I was looking for a section corner but I was distracted by an archeological site I stumbled across. After that I made sure I had a compass and a topo map. This was before handheld GPS was a thing. Once I had that I always marked the trucks position before I wandered off into the great unknown. I tried to find the site several times after that but was unsuccessful. I don't think anyone knew it's location. It may still be unknown.

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Maybe it was Brigadoon.

I heard this story from a friend who was training some new soldiers about land nav. The course was supposed to be about how to use the GPS. The "fancy new GPS" tumbled out of the pocket during the helicopter ride and was destroyed/lost and all they had was a topo map, compass and a watch. The senior NCO watching the class had quite the laugh after hearing the kids complain of the low tech map and compass.

Another story was a friend going through jungle warfare school. He grew up in the southwest Louisiana swamps so it was like coming home for him. He rigged booby traps around his camp site, and passed off the instructors when they tried to hit him at night. He also followed them back to their camp one night. He tied them to their bunks and had lots of other mischief at their expense. the other students started asking him questions and seeking advice and had quite the laugh at the instructors.

My story of being lost came when I was fishing in south Louisiana in the swamps. There are NO landmarks and it is easy to get turned around. I had a cheap GPS with new batteries, an un-opened pack of batteries, a chart, compass and vhf radio. I turned down the wrong canal and ended up way off the beaten path. Not fun when it is getting dark, and lots of mosquitoes/gnats coming out.

My camping/hiking survival kit has a compass, map, Bic lighter, matches, skoal can dull of dryer lint, and a few tea candles in addition to the usual fist aid/survival stuff. I also know how to use the items I have to set up a "base camp" and wait for help. I also make sure someone knows the area I will be in and when I am coming home.

RetiredUSNChief said:

Nice story, great ending!

Never been "that" lost, and I'm not a survivalist who runs around cavorting in the depths of the wilderness.

However, I believe there are two important factors to remember under these circumstances:

1. Remain calm. Panicking doesn't help and wastes time/energy.
2. THINK. People are often smarter than they credit themselves. There are a LOT of little things that can help when lost.

I remember once upon a time, back in the early/mid 70's when I was about 9-10 years old, watching an episode of Shazam! one Saturday morning during cartoons when Billy Batson was lost in the desert with another character. Unable to utter "Shazam" in his presence and thus save the day, Billy figured out how to tell which direction was East in mid-day by planting a stick in the ground and aiming it at the sun. In a few minutes, the stick's shadow appeared and pointed towards the East, saving them hours of time in the desert heat.

It's small things like this that make a big difference...simply understanding a little bit about how the world works around us. How insulation works, which translates into understanding leaves can be used to keep one from suffering excessive cold at night. How landmarks on one side during a hike means they should be on the opposite side during the return. Small things make a big difference.

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Ha that's funny. I am a "survivalist who runs around cavorting in the depths of the wilderness". But your two points are spot-on. We have a few deaths per year, maybe a little less, up in the mountains. But the main reason is due to panic. People get lost, panic and work their way into exhaustion, then lay down to rest and die from hypothermia. Many panic so badly that they throw their gear, and guns away, shuck their packs, and run like a rabbit until they drop, then freeze. Rescue often finds the gear first, then the body(s). It's very sad, all you have to do is build a fire and stay awake all night. And "remain calm". Beats dying. And of course the "small things" and tricks do make a big difference. Anyway you can increase your comfort is a plus. Being able to make a cup of coffee, tea, or coco three in the morning while waiting for daylight is a biggie for me.

I would agree that desert and swamp are much more difficult to navigate in. I probably have it "easy" in that there's usually a good chance of just going downhill, and plenty of water sources. On the other hand, there can be lots of thick brush and blow-downs that are almost impossible to penetrate which is really...bad! I've only spent one night in the woods unintentionally, in the winter. Made a fire, waited for daylight. I wasn't "real lost", had a good general idea of where I was, but knew I could wind up going down some nasty steep downhill and cliffs if I tried to walk out in the dark. Or, become "really" or more lost. I actually got some sleep, by building a "long" fire, and laying next to it. Only seemed like minutes when I'd wake up, and the fire would be totally down to coals and the cold would wake me up. !

I rely on map and compass, but carried a GPS for years, but only used it to double check my map and compass findings. Using a GPS that way is a really good teacher of the map and compass. If I go into very/really unknown territory these days I'll take the GPS, but usually, to save weight, just rely on the map/compass. And a way to make fire.

Everyone should get a personal locator beacon for going off trail. I use it for scuba diving in very remote spots. It's not that useful stuck in water for days but on land it's quite useful when lost.

The satellite gets pinged and the us coastguard will contact the authorities of whichever country you are lost in to find you.

Yeah, my wife got me one of those. Called a "Spot". My son says it's my "leash". Anyhow, I like it cause after spending a day up North, I can log on to the web-site when I get home, and it marks everywhere I went, or everywhere I sent a location. So then I can look at the sat-pics and really see where I was, and how close to what, etc. That's kind of cool.

I don't think I'd hit the SOS button if I was just lost. At least not until a couple of days and all hope was lost. But if one was badly injured, starving, or getting severely dehydrated it sure would come in handy.

The one I have, the Spot, will track your every move if you want it to, the "Track" button, but I leave it off most of the time, turn it on when I'm resting or eating or having a cup of coffee, and hit the "I'm okay" button. Then it sends that message to the home-page, and the wife (a techno-geek) has some kind of alert thing that sends that message to her phone. (I have still refused to join the cult of the phone) Then there's another button, the "need help, but don't call out the Army and Navy or the Coast Guard", which will send a specific message home or to specific people. I've got mine written: "animal down, need help dragging it out". !!!

Not a bad unit, nice and small and light.

When you start to get cataracts the tables start to turn... I never "mark trails". I pick up other peoples trash and "bread crumbs" when I'm on public land most times. I do have a compass or a map most times.

Ugly Sauce said:

I have still refused to join the cult of the phone

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Me too, brother.

Very few places in the lower 48, outside of the mountains, where one cannot walk out to a road in a day, if they walk in a straight line. Thus a simple compass is all you need unless you are hurt. Anytime you are in an area where that cannot happen, you need to be prepared to spend a night outside. Period. One needs a reliable way to signal(fire/smoke) and a way to keep warm. Making sure someone always know where you are(or intend to be) makes for a much easier search. Leave a note in your parked vehicle to tell folks if you did not inform anyone earlier.

RetiredUSNChief said:

Nice story, great ending!

Never been "that" lost, and I'm not a survivalist who runs around cavorting in the depths of the wilderness.

However, I believe there are two important factors to remember under these circumstances:

1. Remain calm. Panicking doesn't help and wastes time/energy.
2. THINK. People are often smarter than they credit themselves. There are a LOT of little things that can help when lost.

I remember once upon a time, back in the early/mid 70's when I was about 9-10 years old, watching an episode of Shazam! one Saturday morning during cartoons when Billy Batson was lost in the desert with another character. Unable to utter "Shazam" in his presence and thus save the day, Billy figured out how to tell which direction was East in mid-day by planting a stick in the ground and aiming it at the sun. In a few minutes, the stick's shadow appeared and pointed towards the East, saving them hours of time in the desert heat.

It's small things like this that make a big difference...simply understanding a little bit about how the world works around us. How insulation works, which translates into understanding leaves can be used to keep one from suffering excessive cold at night. How landmarks on one side during a hike means they should be on the opposite side during the return. Small things make a big difference.

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https://www.instructables.com/3-Ways-to-Find-North-Without-a-Compass/

I'm not sure what you would do on a cloudy day. Best just to carry a compass and a map. I've had an old Garmin that I used for years. Even with that I carried a compass.

entropy said:

Maybe it was Brigadoon.

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No gold but some interesting artifacts. I had a hobby searching for artifacts before I started working as a surveyor. I knew what I had found and I believe it was undisturbed by anyone, maybe some cattle though. Probably a good thing I was never able to relocate it. It was in the area of Hualapai tribal lands. One of their common stated beliefs. "The canyons, where the people were created, are represented by the purple in the middle ground. These canyons are sacred and should be so treated at all times".

Like Brigadoon, never meant to be.

When just married I started deer hunting with my buddies and the most experienced one among us was a veteran who knew the roll of the land in the local conservation sites - one of which included a military reservation. It was open land in deer season, so, off we went. First opening day there's 5" of slushy snow and old tree stands popping up here and there in the dark, up you go you get this one.

I was working and their were outdoor jobs but I was not yet fully educated on long stands in subfreezing weather wearing old Korean era wool. What I learned was November aint that bad - that year turned into 4-6" of new snow every Sunday night and then off to work in a AAA wrecker garage earning enough money to replace the missing heater in my 66 Mustang. I lived, ate, changed flats, and jump started cars for over 9 weeks in sub and freezing weather outdoors. Sundays were great - church, watch the gathering clouds, see the first flakes starting before dark - and the count how deep your feet went thru getting a hot rod with bias plies out of a sloped driveway to work.

After a few years working and realizing that college was slipping away I joined the ROTC which paid some tuition, and then joined a Reserve Unit where we all went to drill same weekends and could split costs traveling. Learned a lot more about Land Nav - and went right back down to the same places I was deer hunting during season. I did NOT mention it, however. None did. We would just wait our turn to wander down some fogged draw with barely a skyline, shoot North, orient, see where we were, and then just point on the map. WE KNEW THE DAMN TREES! Each draw seemed to have a species that was a bit more predominant and expecially with fall foliage you could pick up the color to type them, still hunting for years there we could tell where were were by color selection.

Sarge - ROTC instructors are always another 10 years older with another layer of war service stripes, not the quick movers getting in their instruction years before they hit 20 - well, Sarge would just look at one or the other of us, sigh, confirm it, and we'd pick the next poor kid with no idea, wander about watching him get us lost while trying not to get caught grinning. 30 year old guys who hunted there keeping it on the down low.

During the second year of advanced training they finally swapped sides of the valley which we appreciated a great deal as it advanced our knowledge of the turf. After graduation that training area was closed to further deer hunting - I still hunt the open section off post and for the most part it's no easier. Rain, warm weather, 3" of sleet and more coming down, snow, 14F on opening morning and frost flowers everywhere, every kind of weather, and the best is a wan twilight with no direct sun, no idea which way N would be without a compass, an absolute guarantee of "getting lost" running a draw up two miles of forestland. The local hunting map is a joke and the overhead just shows a blanket of trees year round on GPS. I always take a map and compass - but now I will supplement with GPS on a phone. Reading the advancing clouds by type and movement I can estimate how much good weather is left before something blows in and for the most part avoid it. Weather radar is a major blessing.

Except this one time my son decided we'd just stick it out, what's a little wet, we're dressed for it, and it blew in a 2" thunderstorm which we quietly struggled thru while he kept tracking a deer just a few yards ahead in cover. This went on for 45 minutes and by the time we got to the truck the sun was trying to peak out and the temps had dropped 30 degrees. And all we got was a little wet, didn't even get the ponchos out.

Next time that was coming in I was 25 miles down the road heading home. I have suffered me some on that ground and as you get to reading the weather you know when it's going to be a better day sitting in front of the woodstove.

Although I've not been lost I've been beyond where I should have been 2 times without the necessary equipment for survival if my friends got lost trying to find me.
1) Always have a plan and share it with someone responsible.
2) Always stick to your plan you could be putting others in danger trying to find you!
3) Always be prepared to spend at least one night alone and two days without water or food.
4) Always bring what is necessary for #3!

I was part of a party charged (It was complicated, off duty LEO's!) with bringing a dead guy back to the US from Baja Mexico. He was beyond where he could go safely with out water, food or shelter. As we approached the border we simulated artificial respiration with chest compressions incase the Federalies got stupid. Even though we did not get stopped by the Mexicans we still had to get past the US Border Patrol (more complications!). We didn't want to get held up there. After crossing the border we went to the nearest hospital and again simulated chest compressions until the ER people took over. Fortunately we were only held up there for a few hours sorting things out.

Getting caught in Mexico would be your worst night mare in the 1970's!

Yes, being a Boy Scout may save your life or that of someone trying to find your dumb self!

Smiles,

Ugly Sauce said:

Ha that's funny. I am a "survivalist who runs around cavorting in the depths of the wilderness". But your two points are spot-on. We have a few deaths per year, maybe a little less, up in the mountains. But the main reason is due to panic. People get lost, panic and work their way into exhaustion, then lay down to rest and die from hypothermia. Many panic so badly that they throw their gear, and guns away, shuck their packs, and run like a rabbit until they drop, then freeze. Rescue often finds the gear first, then the body(s). It's very sad, all you have to do is build a fire and stay awake all night. And "remain calm". Beats dying. And of course the "small things" and tricks do make a big difference. Anyway you can increase your comfort is a plus. Being able to make a cup of coffee, tea, or coco three in the morning while waiting for daylight is a biggie for me.

I would agree that desert and swamp are much more difficult to navigate in. I probably have it "easy" in that there's usually a good chance of just going downhill, and plenty of water sources. On the other hand, there can be lots of thick brush and blow-downs that are almost impossible to penetrate which is really...bad! I've only spent one night in the woods unintentionally, in the winter. Made a fire, waited for daylight. I wasn't "real lost", had a good general idea of where I was, but knew I could wind up going down some nasty steep downhill and cliffs if I tried to walk out in the dark. Or, become "really" or more lost. I actually got some sleep, by building a "long" fire, and laying next to it. Only seemed like minutes when I'd wake up, and the fire would be totally down to coals and the cold would wake me up. !

I rely on map and compass, but carried a GPS for years, but only used it to double check my map and compass findings. Using a GPS that way is a really good teacher of the map and compass. If I go into very/really unknown territory these days I'll take the GPS, but usually, to save weight, just rely on the map/compass. And a way to make fire.

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I remember when Survivor was the huge "reality show" hit. I watched exactly ONE episode and determined two things:

1. It wasn't a show about survival skills at all.
2. It was a show with rules deliberately designed to encourage backstabbing, and therefore television drama.

The episode I watched had a group of people camped out in nice tents alongside a shallow river..."starving", of course, because they had no food. (And presumably no water...but I don't remember to that detail.)

Along comes the show's host who offers them a big ol' bag of rice for food...in exchange for all their tents.

Uh...NO! Drag ONE tent into the friggin' river and use it to catch all the fish you can eat if you have to! Then you've got food AND shelter!

But, of course, anybody who demonstrated any such practical survival ingenuity would have been rapidly voted off the show. Because the goal wasn't "survival" but "winning" the prize by being the last one left.

351 WINCHESTER said:

When I was about 18 I went bear hunting by myself in the Big Gum Swamp in Sept. of 72. I had with me my rifle and some spare cartridges, a pocket knife, a pack of smokes and some matches. That was all I had. I was walking on a trail so I knew I would not get lost. Several hours before dark I decided it would be a good idea to head back as the sun was below the tall trees. When I turned around the trail had vanished. I panicked as I knew I was in trouble. Somehow I calmed myself down and I sat down on a fallen tree to figure something out. I spied a really big cypress tree and I decided to go as far as I could in 4 directions while keeping that tree in sight. The first two attempts achieved nothing, but on the third attempt I started seeing cans and bottles so I kept on going even though I had lost sight of that tree. Then I found some Jeep tracks and I followed them to a forest road, but it wasn't the road my car was on, but I walked to the main road and found my car with ease. I did not have any water in my car (only a coke) as we didn't have bottled water back then. I did not tell anyone where I was going or when I would be back. I learned a valuable lesson that day. If I am in unfamilar terrain I will mark my trail and I always have water and a few extra things just in case and I tell my wife where I am going. It helps nowdays to have a cellphone too. I just wanted to share this with someone who might find this helpful.

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I got lost in the woods hunting squirrels. Entered the woods before sunrise, and as the sun rose, the shadows moved, the scenery changed, and I was disorientated. Luckily a vehicle passed on a road and I went in that direction and was able to walk back the long way to the truck. But from then on, I carry a pendant compass on a shoestring around my neck. And I take a bearing, that is North, South, East, West, before stepping into the woods. If I get turned around, I more or less know where the road is, relative to me.

RetiredUSNChief said:

I remember when Survivor was the huge "reality show" hit. I watched exactly ONE episode and determined two things:

1. It wasn't a show about survival skills at all.
2. It was a show with rules deliberately designed to encourage backstabbing, and therefore television drama.

The episode I watched had a group of people camped out in nice tents alongside a shallow river..."starving", of course, because they had no food. (And presumably no water...but I don't remember to that detail.)

Along comes the show's host who offers them a big ol' bag of rice for food...in exchange for all their tents.

Uh...NO! Drag ONE tent into the friggin' river and use it to catch all the fish you can eat if you have to! Then you've got food AND shelter!

But, of course, anybody who demonstrated any such practical survival ingenuity would have been rapidly voted off the show. Because the goal wasn't "survival" but "winning" the prize by being the last one left.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I even watched one episode. Maybe a 1/4 of one, or maybe just the advertisements. "Alone" is a pretty good show.

Slamfire said:

I got lost in the woods hunting squirrels. Entered the woods before sunrise, and as the sun rose, the shadows moved, the scenery changed, and I was disorientated. Luckily a vehicle passed on a road and I went in that direction and was able to walk back the long way to the truck. But from then on, I carry a pendant compass on a shoestring around my neck. And I take a bearing, that is North, South, East, West, before stepping into the woods. If I get turned around, I more or less know where the road is, relative to me.

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I wear a pin-on compass on my shirt/jacket. I refer to it frequently since all I have to do is glance down to read it. It helps in many ways. One of the best is locating a deer after shooting it from a tall tree stand. When I see the deer go down or disappear in brush, I glance at the compass to get the general direction.

Everything looks different from the bottom of the tree so having a line towards the deer helps tremendously. However, I get razzed frequently when going into a place of business when they point to it and ask if I'm still lost.

Ugly Sauce said:

I'm not sure if I even watched one episode. Maybe a 1/4 of one, or maybe just the advertisements. "Alone" is a pretty good show.

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I watch it until they made the people eat a big fat live caterpillar or grub or something and they started barfing all over the ground.
That was it for me.

I took my grandkids, at the 4yo and 5yo, with me rabbit hunting. We had been out 3 or so hours. They were getting tired, all day, I had been asking, " which way is the truck? "
They had been pretty good about knowing which way to go.

We get back and I load them in the bed and said, I will be right back. I took off, going east.
Made my way through a thicket, circle a hill and about an hour later, I returned to the truck, coming from the northwest
Both kids were standing, looking around for me.
We get home and the Wif asked if they fun? Oldest said, " yes, until Papa got lost, but we found him. "


The REAL adventure was offshore. Buddy had just bought a new boat and we were headed offshore. It had one of the new dangled GPS things on it, so for giggles we set way point 1 as the boat ramp. We had been offshore many times, from this ramp, but I was playing with the toys. Leaving the ramp, must travel 200-300 yards north to avoid a sand bar and get into the channel. When we got to the channel, I set way point 2. It is about a mile south east to the causeway bridge and 1/2 mile to open water. At open water, I marked way point 3 and turned east. 5 miles off the beach is a drilling platform. I marked way point 4. We continued 100 miles out and fished the day drifting. We were enjoying the calm day and the fish were biting hard.
Looked up, it is about 4 pm and a think fog, cool front is rolling across the the water, coming from behind us.

We quickly pull lines and make ready to out r in the fog to shore. Start up and push GO TO WAY POINT 4 on the GPS. Arrow points into the fog.

Panic is setting in. We talk about anchoring and sitting the night. But, any ship traffic would never see us. Lets follow the arrow and go slow. Visibility was maybe 30 feet. A thick, wet, cool fog over the warm Gulf water.
We had been tracking the arrow for 3 hours and we hear the locator horn on the rig. It is maybe an hour till dark.
Set GO TO WAY POINT 3. The arrow turns slightly right and we follow. In a bit, the GPS shows we have arrived. Horee Cwap, we can't see the lights of the bridge. Set GO TO WAY POINT 2 and arrow turns. We turn and ease along slowly. GPS is counting the distance and slow to a stop on point. Set GO TO WAY POINT 1. Arrow swings left and gives distance 282 yards. We are barely moving.....280.....275.....270..... ....60.....50....40....35......30......25.....20......15....10....9...8...7.. THERE IS THE DOCK. I jump out, GPS says WAY POINT 3 feet.

Thank God for GPS. It saved us from a scary, possibly disastrous night.

Never been lost..... A might bit confused for a couple of days, but never lost.

Around 10 years ago me and the family moved. Our area is rural, and there’s a lot of national forest nearby. It’s huge, to put it honestly.

Ive learned to tell people the general area I’ll be hunting. And not growing up a Boy Scout, I learned some basic land navigation from reading and watching videos. Some rudimentary understanding paired with a topo map and baseplate compass can be helpful.

I can't say I've ever been truly lost. Been turned around and not where I thought I was for sure.

I went "exploring" following fresh tracks in the snow focused on that. Took a generic bead from compass off the deep fire break and set off after Mr deer as the sun came up.

I sat out there all morning watching does and little deer off in the distance, nothing to shoot at and of course fell asleep in the crisp but warming air. I woke up just as the sun wad going down, still nothing to shoot at. As the shooting light left I grabbed my gear and beat feet for the big fire cut.
I quickly realized my "follow my footprints out" plan melted with the snow.
It was getting dark and I was walking through some seriously thick brush and brambles that I did not on the way in. I walked around the bulk of it but the clock in my head started ringing out "you should have been there by now", now walking faster with some serious purpose in the dim purple light I started To sweat. That is what "snapped me out of it" I slowed down, took a long look around and pulled out my compass. I look down in Disbelief , i am not walking North..... I used to fly I know to trust my instruments... But my compass was pointing. Decidedly NOT southwest at the dim sunset.

It was then that I developed my hatred for mittens with magnetically opened mittens. I pulled the mittens off... Now it was reading correctly! I take a course of 330 and in 3 minutes I hit the fire cut and was back to the truck on a moonless night.

Guess the moral is slow down get your bearings and keep your wits about you

I got lost in a big woods on my grandpas farm, it got dark an i could hear things moving a round so i climbed a tree, later my grandpa come looking for me an got us back on the old logging road, on the way back grandpa stopped an shined his lite down and said look bear tracks

entropy said:

I have always had an innate sense of direction and distance, (Good thing the Artillery never found out, I'd have had a forced change in MOS!) here's a couple examples;
When we were on an FTX, the Repo Depot and the 7ths PSC played our OPFOR. A friend and I, on our own time, found their camp which was laid out like a laager, in a big circle. It was a short artillery shot away from our camp. I had guessed the direction from their nightly infiltration attempts. (I'd sit with a pair of PVS-5 and watch them come in, then light them up with the MILES) Serge and I went out the next day and found their camp while they were all at the Family Field Day, where the families could come out to our camp, eat, get helicopter rides, tour the camp, etc. We stole their CPT's shelter half, tucked neatly under his bunk, as proof we were there.

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Sounds like some of the fun I had chasing tankers around Graf and Hohenfels.. we used to have too much fun with blanks, grenade simulators taped to chocolate milk, starcluster's (direct fire) and other shenanigans.

As for getting lost, my claim to Fame is always making one wrong right turn. I don't know why. But I know it has been the most common mistake.

Once you recognize what you do to get disoriented, you have a spot to learn from.

A couple years ago I took my brother out to a place called "wits end". We split up, he sat down and took a nap. When he woke, he headed off In the wrong direction. 2 hours later, I am at the truck. He had enough service to text me. I told him to fire a shot. He was 2 miles away on Tipso Peak. I told him to head towards the sun until he found a trail, then follow it.

Poor guy was over 7000 feet in altitude when he texted. I leave him at the truck if we hunt together.

I always have a compass, even in familiar territory. Take a reading as you leave your car and keep the *&%# thing away from your gun barrel. I also have an apple or 2 and a power bar, fire starter and matches. Take 4 cotton balls and wipe them down with Vaseline and but them in an medicine pill bottle or a 35mm can(if you know what that is and can find one. lol) Those balls will ignite almost like gasoline, burn completely and leave no trace. Old Boy Scout trick.

Out in the southern Olympics. Jungle like brush and usually cloudy, if not actually raining. Little of it is flat so you’d best have a compass for baseline navigation. Usually too much cover for seeing any landmarks. Buddy says “Well, point us back to the road.” I pull out the compass and start to ponder it a bit too long. Buddy finally asks what is up and I quietly replied “So is it the red end or the white end that points North?”


Later in camp that night after an extended hike that afternoon, I was playing with the compass by the fire and noted it said on the back “Red end points North”. Noting that bit of trivia i slipped it back into my pocket without informing my buddy of my new found wealth of information.

I did get better. And a couple of years later I returned to the same spot we got “lost” and it was shockingly close to the road.