#4 Buckshot Effective?

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Twenty five responses and no one has pointed @JCooperfan1911 toward any of the number of demonstration videos of buckshot and birdshot for home defense. There are plenty of good demonstrations that show penetration - both of the intended target as well as of surrounding walls. They’re the next best thing to shooting up your own walls.
 
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I considered it until a buddy and I shot some armadillos with it.

2 3/4 in Rem or Win #4 Buck at about 7-15 yards.

On a broadside hit if say, about 8-12 pellets hit, the ones that struck towards the front and rear of the creature would exit. Pellets that hit the thicker, center part of the torso would not. In other words they couldn't even penetrate 6 to 8 inches of armadillo.

Oh it killed them fast and I highly recommend #4 buckshot for them. But for people I say #1 buckshot or larger.

In 20 guage #2 and #3 buckshot can be found in 3 in shells and that's probably what I'd use.
 
Everybody has opinions. But demonstrable facts are all that really matters.

Here are three videos that demonstrate effectiveness of full velocity and reduced velocity #4 buckshot on a target (including Paul's meat target)...


...and penetration of #4 buck (and other projectiles) through normal walls...
.

Thanks -- when I posted I wasn't on a device that made searching for the videos convenient! :)
 
My residences’ local agency issues #4 buckshot for their patrol deputies (I work in another county). They have 1,000+ sworn deputies so they’re not the largest agency around, but they’re not tiny either. If #4 buckshot works for an agency like theirs with rural and urban patrol areas all the variables those deputies face, it’ll work just fine for your defensive needs where you live.

Load it, you can count on it. (Let’s all hope you’ll never need to use it :)).

Stay safe.
My best friend and former Company Commander in the Army was a deputy in the 1970s and got fired for bumping a known felon with a gun in the butt as he scaled an alley fence after a armed liquor store robbery he responded to the silent alarm owner triggered. The Hispanic Organisations wanted My friends butt as it was the second Latino immigrant he shot in a couple years for their armed crimes . :( I asked the attending nurse in the emergency room who was a good friend how the wounds were. There were 7 or 8 hits in buttocks and upper legs . No complete penetration and no permanent injuries at a distance of about 90 feet. from an 870 with 4 Buck .
 
My best friend and former Company Commander in the Army was a deputy in the 1970s and got fired for bumping a known felon with a gun in the butt as he scaled an alley fence after a armed liquor store robbery he responded to the silent alarm owner triggered. The Hispanic Organisations wanted My friends butt as it was the second Latino immigrant he shot in a couple years for their armed crimes . :( I asked the attending nurse in the emergency room who was a good friend how the wounds were. There were 7 or 8 hits in buttocks and upper legs . No complete penetration and no permanent injuries at a distance of about 90 feet. from an 870 with 4 Buck .
Personally I am a # 1 buckshot fan for HD loads, I keep Federal 2 3/4” in the Mag. For close quarters apartment living like the OP mentioned I think the #4 Buck load would be very effective. :thumbup:.

I don’t recall how many OIS the local agency has had with their shotguns. I will say they’ve dropped off considerably over the last 10 years or so with the increased popularity of patrol rifles, so I don’t know how much longer the shotgun will be used outside of less lethal applications.

Stay safe.
 
Everybody has opinions. But demonstrable facts are all that really matters.

Here are three videos that demonstrate effectiveness of full velocity and reduced velocity #4 buckshot on a target (including Paul's meat target)...



...and penetration of #4 buck (and other projectiles) through normal walls...





Thanks for posting this, I had the same question as the original poster but love to see video of what people have actually shot with their rifles and shotguns.
Even if the tests or videos have a small N it's better than a random option. Just my option of course LOL
 
If the OP MUST use his shotgun inside his apartment to save an innocent's life, then reliably hitting the target and choosing ammo that eliminates stray pellets should be priorities. This will likely end the threat without risk to neighbors no matter what size buckshot is used.

But being able to reliably hit a moving target in a dynamic situation, maybe in low light, requires training and regular practice. You can't learn these skills shooting five rounds on the square range once a year.

I think that choosing #4 buck to "save the neighbors" is a poor substitute for doing whatever is necessary to make sure that every pellet that is fired hits the threat.
 
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Last time I checked, people don't have shells ... :D

Oh? You've never felt the tough skin of a lizard-woman?

J/k

Armadillo shell doesn't seem that tough. Like fiberboard maybe. Enough to defend against the claws of similar sized animals.

Turtle shell is much tougher.
 
I, thankfully, haven't needed to shoot anybody yet so, like most of the other posters, all I have to offer is my opinion. When deciding on the size of shot for use in defending yourself against another human being, every size is a compromise, especially when penetration (lack of or too much) is an issue. After much thought and some research, I opted for No. 4 Buck; a compromise that offers more pellets and less penetration than 00 Buck but more penetration than anything smaller, albeit with fewer pellets.
 
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In my own use of buckshot I used 4 buck in 12 and 10 gauge , and 2 and 3 and now 1 buck in 20 gauge . I only use 4 buck for critters under coyote or large racoon size. I patrolled a ranch where I had a goat heard in the 70s and dogs, lions and coyotes would raid or attempt to raid the goat pen and the chickens. Dogs were a bad problem as neighbors dogs would travel the half mile to roam around and eventually attack the live stock and they were bigger than the frequent coyotes. I had two especially nasty german shepard type, but slightly larger mixed with Rottweiler keep coming over and got more aggressive each time they came to my ranch. The owner insisted I shoot them after they chased him back into his house one time. So I went over in my Toyota landcruiser and shot them at about 25-40 yards with a modified choke Ithaca 12 gauge 37 pump .The first dog ran away as he was rolled with a solid side hit at 25 yards that rolled him , the second dogs rear quarters went down briefly as he got a going away centered pattern . They both made it home but only the one hit in the rear quarters survived after extensive vet work. The owner , who lived almost a mile from where thy were shot was furious but he was repeatedly warned to keep them off our property and they had torn up a couple of my goats before. After that incident my boss handed me his Garand and an ammo can full of ammo and told me to shoot everything so it didn't leave the property. I returned the Garand a couple years later when I left his employment and every thing I shot after that never got far !
I live rural so I use 000 buckshot in 10 and 12 gauge for HD and 00 buck for training , which also works well up thru deer. I am using the 20 for pests, especially when I am staying in a trailer, rurally, and have moved to the recent 9 pellet load of #1 buck in Rio and Noble Sport which I can obtain these days.

All that said IF I lived in an apartment or close in housing I would use #6 shot which will do the job at up to 30 feet or so, and not blow thru walls too bad.
 
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I use #4 buck exclusively. By my figure, if it'll kill deer at 30 yards (it has for me) then it'll damsure kill a man at 15 feet. Now, most of the pellets are still in the deer when it's skinned, and they might run a couple yards before expiring, but they will be buzzard eatin' dead in less time than it takes to rack another one in the 1897.

Armadillo shell doesn't seem that tough. Like fiberboard maybe. Enough to defend against the claws of similar sized animals

They aren't... just ask my dog. One crunch center-mass and they're done for. I used to just shoot them with #6 shot from a shotgun, or a 22; they aren't hard to kill. Now that I have the dog, I don't even waste shells.

Mac
 
Over penetration just is not a concern unless you are planning to miss.
Yeah, well, I came upon a scene once where an individual had fired a round of 00 from an 870 at someone about ten feet away, down a hallway, and all nine pellets when over the guy's left shoulder, impacting the wall at the end of the hall. Of course, everyone here is calm, cool and collected in real-life situations and none of us plan to miss, hey?
Peter Hathaway Chapstick considered it good enough for following up lion and leopard in the brush. Good enough for me.
Uh, Capstick.
I'll have to read "Death in the Long Grass" again... I know he was known for the .470 Capstick.

I'll be honest, I've never had occasion to consider #4 buckshot, strange considering all the gun guys I know and all the training been involved with over the years.

Here's another case where THR has actually given me something to ponder. Who says us old guys won't even consider change?
 
Being a contrary person to "trends", my favorite buckshot now is 000 for HD for our non-urban mountain home. When we lived in town, I used lead BB, #2 or #4 bird shot. Knowing how modern apartments are constructed, I would probably just run a #4 turkey load and call it good.
I would wholeheartedly agree...#4 or #6 would end a situation at in-home distances, and would reduce the number of neighbors shot by at least a factor of 10 (just kidding). Seriously, 12 ga bird shot up close and personal doesn’t care what your shirt is made of....and btw, it’s VERY LOUD indoors.
 
For home defense, I have heard conflicting reports on the efficacy of #4 buckshot loads. I am asking because I live in an apartment at the moment and the risk of overpenetration is a very real concern.

What do you all think about the topic? Is #4 an effective load for home defense? Why or why not?
When I worked for NC Division of Prisons in the late 1970's-early 1980's, #4 buckshot was our issued round for both tower duty or on road crews (we carried Remington 870's, 20 inch modified choke barrel with 6 round magazines). The pellet weight has enough legs for effective human take-down at 50-75 yard shots with a modified choke barrel; it also lacked hard-target penetration at those ranges (buildings or vehicles), which we wanted to avoid if we were forced to shoot at a fleeing inmate in a congested area where the background presented difficulties in clean shots. The number of pellets also increased the likelihood of multiple hits as the shot column spread. At close range (under 15 yards) it was little different than heavier buckshot due to minimal spread of the shot column at that range. Inside a house, I don't think it would make much difference between #4 Buck and 000, but that's opinion based on what I saw it capable of during training for Corrections use.
 
It wasn't until this thread that I gave too much thought to the issue. I always figured that 4 Buck pellets would hit like 22 Short rounds. So to give myself a little perspective, I decided to compare the two side by side.
One round of this,
index.php

(According to the OP)

Versus 27 rounds of this,
CC_26_22ShortCBLRNPestControl_Combo_R.jpg

Well, the 4 Buck pellets are .24 caliber ~ 20.71 grains each at a listed 1325 fps (80.74 ft-lbs and 27.44 PF) each. (1.25 ounce load)

The .22 Shorts are 29 grains each at a listed 710 fps (32.46 ft-lbs and 20.59 PF each)

Multiply both by 27 and we get 2180 ft-lbs for the 12 guage load and 876 for the cluster of .22 Shorts.
Well, the 12 certainly has more potential to do a lot of damage but the .22 Shorts can potentially be placed with more precision. If I had to chose between the two for HD (at close range), I wouldn't hesitate to pick the 12 guage loaded with 4 Buck (as shown in the picture above).
Is any round guaranteed? I don't think so, but unless you're only choice is a single shot, it's my guess you can always just rack again/pull the trigger again and repeat.
 
If the 4 buck doesn't quite give you the warm'n fuzzies but you still prefer both a higher pellet count over the 00 and have concerns of buckshot entering your neighbor's house across the street, the much-ignored 1 buck is a fine choice. Winchester's XB121 resides in my go-to shotguns.
 
I chose #4 buck for my "around the house" scattergun because with a little searching, gel testing showed it to have plenty adequate penetration 11"-15" at shorter distances. The farthest shot I would have to make is 7 yards, and what I'm really worried about pattern size and barrier penetration at that point. The decreased barrier penetration is a plus, because there's far fewer walls between my neighbors and I, in most of my house. The pattern is still well within what I would consider tight enough to avoid fliers.

I feel like #4 Buck gets a bad rap due to its misuse at longer distances. That .24 caliber buckshot really loses steam quick I'm sure.
Though just as I wouldn't use a slug for inside the home, I wouldn't use #4 buck for slug distances.

I chose this load over my reduced recoil 00 buck(which I still have loaded in my bedroom gun) because I would like to try my best to mitigate possible injuries or damage caused to parties not involved in the unlikely event of me defending myself where I live.

As was mentioned this is entirely based on my opinion.
I bought some for the same reason, home defense. Less barrier penetration and very short effective distance (including danger to bystanders or neighbors) is attractive in house.
 
It wasn't until this thread that I gave too much thought to the issue. I always figured that 4 Buck pellets would hit like 22 Short rounds. So to give myself a little perspective, I decided to compare the two side by side.
One round of this,
index.php

(According to the OP)

Versus 27 rounds of this,
View attachment 1025925

Well, the 4 Buck pellets are .24 caliber ~ 20.71 grains each at a listed 1325 fps (80.74 ft-lbs and 27.44 PF) each. (1.25 ounce load)

The .22 Shorts are 29 grains each at a listed 710 fps (32.46 ft-lbs and 20.59 PF each)

Multiply both by 27 and we get 2180 ft-lbs for the 12 guage load and 876 for the cluster of .22 Shorts.
Well, the 12 certainly has more potential to do a lot of damage but the .22 Shorts can potentially be placed with more precision. If I had to chose between the two for HD (at close range), I wouldn't hesitate to pick the 12 guage loaded with 4 Buck (as shown in the picture above).
Is any round guaranteed? I don't think so, but unless you're only choice is a single shot, it's my guess you can always just rack again/pull the trigger again and repeat.
Those aren't shorts, they're CB caps. Low velocity. A short has 1045 FPS velocity. This narrows the gap quite a bit.
 
I'd certainly use #4 Buck without thinking twice.
If you're really concerned about thin walls and neighbors, bird shot of really any size will probably neutralize any threat you'd ever encounter in your apartment.
 
Go shoot it! - set some targets up at 15- 20- 30 feet and see what it does. .....if you are going to load it in your gun you should shoot it and see how it and you perform with it!

.....nothing beats actual experience....

I like 4 buck better on varmints -
 
It wasn't until this thread that I gave too much thought to the issue. I always figured that 4 Buck pellets would hit like 22 Short rounds. So to give myself a little perspective, I decided to compare the two side by side.
One round of this,
index.php

(According to the OP)

Versus 27 rounds of this,
View attachment 1025925

Well, the 4 Buck pellets are .24 caliber ~ 20.71 grains each at a listed 1325 fps (80.74 ft-lbs and 27.44 PF) each. (1.25 ounce load)

The .22 Shorts are 29 grains each at a listed 710 fps (32.46 ft-lbs and 20.59 PF each)

Multiply both by 27 and we get 2180 ft-lbs for the 12 guage load and 876 for the cluster of .22 Shorts.
Well, the 12 certainly has more potential to do a lot of damage but the .22 Shorts can potentially be placed with more precision. If I had to chose between the two for HD (at close range), I wouldn't hesitate to pick the 12 guage loaded with 4 Buck (as shown in the picture above).
Is any round guaranteed? I don't think so, but unless you're only choice is a single shot, it's my guess you can always just rack again/pull the trigger again and repeat.

Great perspective on this. A reiteration that this round would be one bad day for whatevers on the receiving end of it. I've personally fired 22 CB shorts a lot in my day. I know for a fact it goes through one wall of sheetrock 95% of the time, rarely it doesn't quite make it through one, but has little to no energy left after that, and will never make it through another layer of sheetrock. IMO a standard double sheet rocked wall penetration is impossible with the CCI 22 CB shorts.....
 
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