6.5 Creed for Elk?

I have not shot an elk with a 6.5 Creedmore, and don't intend to. In my opinion, with a top quality bullet designed for penetration, the cartridge would be adequate, if everything else goes perfectly. It's too close to the line for my own taste, however, and I would urge something more powerful.

Since I haven't tried to kill an Elk yet with anything, my opinion is only a theory, but 6.5 wouldn't be my first choice for elk. It is definitely an accurate round, and I'm sure it would kill one with good shot placement. However, if your buddy is not an accomplished hunter already, his judgement and shot placement may not be on par with the gun yet. My
SIL is arranging an Elk hunt that hasn't happened yet , and I chose 300wm for this occasion. There are others here who will probably chime in soon with equally good choices.

Is have little compunction using one if that was rhe only or largest option I had.
Giving my druthers tho ill take something larger.....7mm and 60gr of powder +

But ive never hunted elk, largest animals ive shot wernt much smaller tho....still with experience perhaps id change my tune one way or tother.....

The 6.5 CM shoots the same bullet weights as 270 (6.8mm) about 150-200 fps slower at the muzzle. But the better aerodynamics of the 6.5 bullets mean it will be impacting at the same speeds, or faster than a 270 at some point beyond 200 yards. It will penetrate a little deeper than 270 assuming the same bullet construction due to the better sectional densities.

In a nutshell a 140 gr 6.5 bullet does pretty much anything a 150 gr 270 bullet does on game. And a 150 gr 270 bullet is considered more than adequate for elk, moose or bear.

The 6.5CM is the smallest cartridge I'd feel comfortable using for game larger than deer, but I'd use it on any animal in the lower 48.

According to wiki, in 1899, a 30-40 Krag was used to shoot the world record Rocky Mountain elk- this record stood until the latter half of the 20th century.

jmr40 said:

The 6.5 CM shoots the same bullet weights as 270 (6.8mm) about 150-200 fps slower at the muzzle. But the better aerodynamics of the 6.5 bullets mean it will be impacting at the same speeds, or faster than a 270 at some point beyond 200 yards. It will penetrate a little deeper than 270 assuming the same bullet construction due to the better sectional densities.

In a nutshell a 140 gr 6.5 bullet does pretty much anything a 150 gr 270 bullet does on game. And a 150 gr 270 bullet is considered more than adequate for elk, moose or bear.

The 6.5CM is the smallest cartridge I'd feel comfortable using for game larger than deer, but I'd use it on any animal in the lower 48.

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Ya know I've read the bolded quite a few times. I load for both 6.5C and .270 and it's correct, but a ways further than 200 yards, out past normal hunting shot range is more like it a long ways in most parts of the country.



My 24" barreled .270 is at 3000 with 150s, while my friends 6.5 is at 2730 with 143s in his 24" barreled 6.5C.

Here's a pretty good comparison that puts the .270 still ahead of the 6.5C out to 800 yds:

I've included ranges to ridiculous distances for hunting (in my opinion) to clearly show how the superior Ballistic Coefficient of the 6.5 Creedmoor bullet enables it to begin catching up to the velocity of the 270 Winchester bullet. The Winchester's 250 fps velocity advantage at the muzzle has been reduced to just 54 fps at 800 yards. Note that, even though the .277" bullet leaves the muzzle with 497 foot-pounds more energy than the 6.5 Creedmoor, the superior aerodynamic shape of the .264" bullet enables it to conserve more energy. By 800 yards the 6.5 Creedmoor has cut the 270 Winchester's energy advantage to just 78 f-p.

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https://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/6-5-creedmoor-versus-270-winchester

Buddy wants advice and I don't hunt elk. Would an AR in 6.5 Creedmoor be sufficient for elk? Given a range of, say 300 yards or less and good shot placement?

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Yes.

I have seen well over 1000 lb animals dropped in their tracks with a .22 short (behind an East Texas grocery store when I was a kid), so I have little doubt an elk could be killed by a 6.5 cm but like many above, it wouldn’t be my first pick but pretty far from the last too.

My take on it....I've only been elk hunting 4 times, all on public land (CO and WA). I've killed two 5x4 bulls, one in CO and one in WA. The other two hunts I didn't see a legal bull, one time not enough points, the other too many points (spike area). I used an 8x68S and a .350 Rem Mag. Both of my bulls were 1 shot and the maximum degree of dead at the end. I honestly don't remember the recoil, nor do I remember wishing I'd brought a smaller caliber (lighter rifle maybe). Neither of my animals registered a hit, till they dropped and that was after going a short ways, both were double lunged, but the 8x68 was a quartering away. One was a little over 300yds, the other just at 200yds, both were slow walk moving.

IMHO, it really, really, depends on your circumstances. For me; and out of state guy, most likely public land, limited time, I wouldn't go with minimal anything. While the "minimal calibers" work well, you may only get one chance, and that chance might not be ideal. So my idea of an elk rifle is a .30 magnum and up, using a bonded bullet.

IF I was a resident, had access to private land and the entire season, my answer might change.

As stated about can it kill an elk, sure. Should he use something bigger, probably. I know that they have been shot out of the cabin door with .30-30s an such, but it an effort for me to hunt them.

The two elk hunts I have made to Montana (unsuccessful both times do to weather) cost me ~$6,500 each time for the guide plus travel expenses. I would only take a rifle that gave me the best chance of being successful, not marginal.
The first trip we had torrential rain for the week. 1 out of 11 guys harvested an elk at long range with one of the guides .338 Remington Ultra magnum. I never saw an elk. Second trip we had a day of thick fog followed by 5 days of sub-zero blizzards. We saw dozens of elk, but between the fog, knee deep snow, and temperature we could not get anywhere near them for a shot.

Best of luck to him whatever rifle he takes.

Jerry M said:

As stated about can it kill an elk, sure. Should he use something bigger, probably. I know that they have been shot out of the cabin door with .30-30s an such, but it an effort for me to hunt them.

The two elk hunts I have made to Montana (unsuccessful both times do to weather) cost me ~$6,500 each time for the guide plus travel expenses. I would only take a rifle that gave me the best chance of being successful, not marginal.
The first trip we had torrential rain for the week. 1 out of 11 guys harvested an elk at long range with one of the guides .338 Remington Ultra magnum. I never saw an elk. Second trip we had a day of thick fog followed by 5 days of sub-zero blizzards. We saw dozens of elk, but between the fog, knee deep snow, and temperature we could not get anywhere near them for a shot.

Best of luck to him whatever rifle he takes.

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My son and I are going on our first Montana elk hunt end of October and I sure hope it goes better than either one of those.

He's bringing a 300 WM and I'm going with a 30-06. I'm the old guy and may never get to do this again so the deal is that the first bull is my choice unless it's over 350 yards. Anything beyond that, he's a better shooter than me and I like the power of the 300 when things start stretching out.

There is no way I would consider a 6.5 Creed after the kind of time and financial commitment that an elk hunt entails for me. As the ballistics charts show, it's not a .270 which is what most outfitters consider to be the bare minimum. IMO you'd be better off going out with a new Savage Axis or Ruger American chambered in something more suitable than taking a chance with a 6.5.

jmr40 said:

And a 150 gr 270 bullet is considered more than adequate for elk, moose or bear.

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Let's just say that's not a universally held opinion.

Eagle103 said:

There is no way I would consider a 6.5 Creed after the kind of time and financial commitment that an elk hunt entails for me.

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That's perfectly understandable even though elk hunting for me doesn't require much, if any more "commitment" (financial or otherwise) than deer hunting.
Yesterday evening I was talking with a buddy of mine, Jack, who owns and runs a garage in Malad - about 30 miles south of here. Jack is going to replace the axel seals and a couple of axel bearings in my wife’s Jeep Wrangler.
However, he probably won’t be able to do the job next week because he was up at his elk hunting camp at the top of Mink Creek (also near here) yesterday morning and saw “sign everywhere,” he said. So he’ll probably be elk hunting most of next week instead of tending his garage.
Jack is an archery hunter, and archery elk season here has been open for a couple of weeks, and will remain open until the last part of this month. Jack had already spent a couple of days hunting in the area where he has his camp set up (which is on private land BTW) but hadn’t seen any elk because they’d obviously not moved in there yet.
Anyway, Jack said they’re in there now, so he’s going after one next week. There’s little doubt in my mind that Jack will kill an elk with his bow - if not next week, the week after. So surely a 6.5 Creedmoor would work fine for killing one. And if anyone can’t see the fallacies in that way of thinking, I don’t know what else to tell them.

I’d be more concerned with the buddy’s skill and experience than the 6.5CM. I could be reading into the situation but when I hear hunting with AR and 6.5CM and asking for advice, “alarm bells go off in my head to verify said persons skill with a rifle/hunting.”

And I’m by no means against hunting with an AR, I do myself from time to time, but there is a stereotype that is flashing in my head with this situation and I could be wrong.

There were a lot of new hunters out west here that gave the 6.5CM a bad reputation on elk. I think it was more due to experience than the cartridge.

The 6.5CM never interested me but it does have merit.

GSPKurt said:

Buddy wants advice and I don't hunt elk. Would an AR in 6.5 Creedmoor be sufficient for elk? Given a range of, say 300 yards or less and good shot placement?

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I'd be more worried about lugging around the ar-10....

Chuck R. said:

Ya know I've read the bolded quite a few times. I load for both 6.5C and .270 and it's correct, but a ways further than 200 yards, out past normal hunting shot range is more like it a long ways in most parts of the country.

View attachment 1026250

My 24" barreled .270 is at 3000 with 150s, while my friends 6.5 is at 2730 with 143s in his 24" barreled 6.5C.

Here's a pretty good comparison that puts the .270 still ahead of the 6.5C out to 800 yds:



https://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/6-5-creedmoor-versus-270-winchester

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Now take the creed drop 48 grns of rl 26 or44 grns of rl 16or44", grns of h4350witb that same 143 grain bullet &
A muzzle volocityof 2950-2975, and it will equal if not beat the 270 , handloading the creed makes it shine

The 6.5 cm is plenty of gun for elk my wife has taken 13 elk with hers from 90 yrds out to 420 all1 shot all drt and complete pass through
Elk are not bullet proof take out the vitals cut off the oxegen and.blood flow and they die just like any other liveing thing, you.DON'T. Need 1500 ft lbs to kill an elk.

I've killed more Elk with my 25-06 than any of my others, however my go to these days is my 300 mag.

Gooseman69 said:

Now take the creed drop 48 grns of rl 26 or44 grns of rl 16or44", grns of h4350witb that same 143 grain bullet &
A muzzle volocityof 2950-2975, and it will equal if not beat the 270 , handloading the creed makes it shine

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So there should be no issue posting a reference that shows a 6.5C getting 2950 with a 143 grn....right?

Because the ones I'm looking at:

Nosler
Sierra
Hodgdon (BTW Hodgdon's lists 41.8 grns as the max for the 143grn for H4350 with 2719 FPS at 61,200 PSI, which is about what I get from a friends 24" barrel)

Nosler for example:

https://www.nosler.com/65-creedmoor

Show the creed topping out at 2750 or so with a 143 with a 24" test barrel.

Another decent article, note the quote:

I’ve pulled my muzzle velocities from Hornady’s Handbook of Cartridge Reloading, 10th Edition which, by the way, gives the wrong B.C. for the .277 bullet. According to the Hornady website, they now rate this 145-grain ELD-X .277 bullet B.C. .536, not the earlier .485 as listed in the Reloading Manual. Observant readers will notice that I used the top speed of 3,000 fps with the 270 Winchester, but only the second highest listed MV of 2,750 fps with the Creedmoor. I did this because, while shooting hundreds of rounds of 143-grain ELD-X bullets through six different 6.5 Creedmoor rifles, I’ve yet to see a chronograph reading above 2,750 fps — and rarely that. I have seen 3,000 fps with many 270 Winchesters. I don’t doubt Hornady engineers hit the 2,800 fps they list as a top load through their 24” 6.5 Creedmoor test barrel, but I doubt many of us can safely duplicate it.

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https://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/6-5-creedmoor-versus-270-winchester

We're talking close to 14 grns less case capacity for the 6.5C VS .270.



Like I said earlier, the 6.5C catches up and passes the .270 a ways out there due to the higher BC, a long ways, at which most hunters have no business taking a shot a live game. At normal distances the 6.5C is not making up for 14 grns less capacity and 200 FPS.

It's a great cartridge, but it's not magic...

Gooseman69 said:

Now take the creed drop 48 grns of rl 26 or44 grns of rl 16or44", grns of h4350witb that same 143 grain bullet &
A muzzle volocityof 2950-2975, and it will equal if not beat the 270 , handloading the creed makes it shine

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That seems awful hot to me as a load you sure that’s in spec and not what someone somewhere just happened to work up that has no pressure testing equipment like the big boys do?????