New scout rifle using stripper clips?

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Robert said:
Spend the money and buy a Steyr Scout. You don't have to fiddle with chargers or clips, it comes with two mags and you can mount the scope up front, or in the traditional location. And it is more accurate than most shooters. You can have it in 308, 6.5 and I think one other...maybe
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In recent times the Steyr Scout has come down a lot in price. IIRC, they could be had for as little as $1350 or $1400 a year or two ago. They also had a more tactical version I don't think they make anymore.

The problem with mags for the Steyr is they are expensive. Two isn't enough for defense, IMO, which the Scout was partly made for. Stripper clips would be much cheaper, of course.
 
I always liked the scout rifle concept. The idea of the quick snapshot with a simple, powerful, bolt gun was a good one, and I think still a valid one. I put a scout scope on my Lee Enfield when I first shortened it.

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It still had the draw back of being a scope though. Quicker that a conventional scope, but still not as fast as something more modern like a red dot, so It didn't take long before I ended up changing it out for one.
Seeing as how the scout scope was low magnification anyhow, I lost very little in range going to the red dot, but gained a great deal in speed.
I can engage a target with this baby now as quickly as I can with my AR, and the .303 British round is much better suited to hunting. (or combat for that matter)
As far as the stripper clips go... I only have a few, (and a spare mag) so it's not like this is a weapon I'd want as a "go to war" battle rifle, but as what it is... a scout rifle... it could serve quite well.
The thing with stripper clips is the rifles that shoot them are old, so they are hard to find.

IUTZir3.jpg
 
The original idea of a 'Scout Rifle' was aimed at the idea of a ground based, foot propelled gatherer of information re: the opposition. Never intended to be a main battle rifle.

Very quickly, many folks thought the idea would be useful for their purposes. So the idea was modified to fit the user's situation.

About as quickly, the concept became a status symbol, in the sense of 'being first on one's block' and my 'Scout rifle is cooler than yours'.

Whether one understands or not, more ammunition can be carried by a human on foot in stripper or charger clips than in extra magazines. Whether one understands or not, a military scout tends to avoid conflict and by nature has no need for a forty round burst. Understand it or not, hunting does not require much ammunition at all. One who uses many rounds to kill a deer needs to work on marksmanship rather than a larger ammunition supply. Both military scouts and hunters require a round capable of settling the matter in one shot.

I find a long eye relief scope mounted a ways out on the barrel very handy for watching the area for potential targets. Obviously, that is not a universal feeling. I find short eye relief scopes mounted up close to be superior for precision shooting. Does one configuration do all? More or less.
 
That was my original intent behind my sks though I think I’m gunna get a side mounted AK style rail for it. Still not sure sure I want to put holes in it though (even if it is ‘just’ a Chinese manufacture).
 
Archie said:
The original idea of a 'Scout Rifle' was aimed at the idea of a ground based, foot propelled gatherer of information re: the opposition. Never intended to be a main battle rifle.

Very quickly, many folks thought the idea would be useful for their purposes. So the idea was modified to fit the user's situation.

About as quickly, the concept became a status symbol, in the sense of 'being first on one's block' and my 'Scout rifle is cooler than yours'.

Whether one understands or not, more ammunition can be carried by a human on foot in stripper or charger clips than in extra magazines. Whether one understands or not, a military scout tends to avoid conflict and by nature has no need for a forty round burst. Understand it or not, hunting does not require much ammunition at all. One who uses many rounds to kill a deer needs to work on marksmanship rather than a larger ammunition supply. Both military scouts and hunters require a round capable of settling the matter in one shot.

I find a long eye relief scope mounted a ways out on the barrel very handy for watching the area for potential targets. Obviously, that is not a universal feeling. I find short eye relief scopes mounted up close to be superior for precision shooting. Does one configuration do all? More or less.
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This guy gets it.

35W
 
theotherwaldo said:
I never felt that "ultra-light scout rifle" and ".308 caliber" fit in the same sentence.
That's why my scout rifle build started out with Bubba's old Model 94 Swedish Mauser... .
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I have a theory that Cooper picked the .308 Winchester (7.62x51mm NATO) because it is very ordinary and available, and, it will do nearly everything pretty well. There is some merit to that argument.
I must confess I appreciate and like 6.5x55mm Swede a lot (since before it was discovered, as it happens). What I call my 'anything' rifle is a rather altered M1894 Swede carbine.
 
Space Ghost: I must admit that despite having very little attraction over the years to highly-altered (or "sporterized") milsurps, yours certainly has a very military look.

A second look at yours helped create more of an open mind; my Wife calls it "...a hole in your head".:D

It has an all-business appearance, intense, and would have been a hit with TWD series, south of Atlanta! Very nice wood also.

Slightly different note: do any buttstock "ammo holders" hold a long row of 7.62x39 ?
With no bayo lugs allowed on AKMs, due to the "drive-by bayonetings.. ;)" such an ammo device would look chic and 'far out'...
 
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Space Ghost said:
I always liked the scout rifle concept. The idea of the quick snapshot with a simple, powerful, bolt gun was a good one, and I think still a valid one. I put a scout scope on my Lee Enfield when I first shortened it.

View attachment 1026420


It still had the draw back of being a scope though. Quicker that a conventional scope, but still not as fast as something more modern like a red dot, so It didn't take long before I ended up changing it out for one.
Seeing as how the scout scope was low magnification anyhow, I lost very little in range going to the red dot, but gained a great deal in speed.
I can engage a target with this baby now as quickly as I can with my AR, and the .303 British round is much better suited to hunting. (or combat for that matter)
As far as the stripper clips go... I only have a few, (and a spare mag) so it's not like this is a weapon I'd want as a "go to war" battle rifle, but as what it is... a scout rifle... it could serve quite well.
The thing with stripper clips is the rifles that shoot them are old, so they are hard to find.

View attachment 1026421
Click to expand...

Fine oinker buster.
 
Like I said on the last page I would really like to try one someday as I like to challenge my prejudices. I know that the army still does have designated roles as scouts, I think they are called cavalry scouts now, but I don't know how much they are utilized now that they have portable drones as such. I have read about how they were used quite extensively in vietnam. What I would really like to find is real army scout that has actually been in combat performing their role that would say yes, indeed the best tool for me as an army scout is a 1940's bolt action rifle with stripper clips and a long eye relief scope mounted mid handguard.

Anyway with that out of the way if I happen apon a bubbad up mosin or mauser I would like to put one together and try it. My only experience with the subject was electrical taping one of my handgun scopes onto a mauser handguard. I walked outside and looked around through if for about a minute and said no thank you sir, I'll take my field of view.
 
someguy2800 said:
Like I said on the last page I would really like to try one someday as I like to challenge my prejudices. I know that the army still does have designated roles as scouts, I think they are called cavalry scouts now, but I don't know how much they are utilized now that they have portable drones as such. I have read about how they were used quite extensively in vietnam. What I would really like to find is real army scout that has actually been in combat performing their role that would say yes, indeed the best tool for me as an army scout is a 1940's bolt action rifle with stripper clips and a long eye relief scope mounted mid handguard.

Anyway with that out of the way if I happen apon a bubbad up mosin or mauser I would like to put one together and try it. My only experience with the subject was electrical taping one of my handgun scopes onto a mauser handguard. I walked outside and looked around through if for about a minute and said no thank you sir, I'll take my field of view.
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It was that field of view issue, along with the whole "scope shadow" deal that kinda was a deal breaker for me. Great concept in theory, and I really loved it on paper, but I just wasn't very fast with it in reality. Once I had built mine, I had to change it over to the red dot. Like anything though... I suppose it's subject to re-evaluation, and modification upon advancements in new technology. IMHO, had Col Cooper lived longer, he may have himself changed his ideas of what makes an ideal scout rifle to include a red dot. At least I'd like to think so. It does for me anyway. With both eyes open, and the nothing is faster speed of the red dot, I have the best of both worlds. Only thing I can't do is take a precision shot at 400+ yards, but that's because I'm getting old and can't hardly SEE 400 yds without a magnified optic. However, if it's within 250 or so... it better hide.

I put a red dot on my lever gun too. It doesn't have the range, or power of my No 4, being a .44 magnum, (100yd / 150 yd max) but it's much lighter, and even that much faster handling, making it an even better scout rifle in the my AO. (Indiana woods & farmland)

SIyLXBw.jpg
 
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Having trying and using both, I came to like the red dot better than the scope too. Just a lot faster and easier to shoot with.

A more traditionally mounted scope with a little power, I think, is better for farther off targets, but that scope in your face is a negative, compared to the more forward mounted optic.

If I had to choose just one for "everything", it would be a good red dot, mounted forward, hands down.
 
how long do the batteries last on some of these new generation mid priced red dots last? I have owned a couple older cheap ones and I always forget to turn them off.
 
jmr40 said:
All of Coopers original "scout" rifles were built on military surplus actions. Some guys today still take that approach when putting together a "scout" rifle, but as far as I know all of the commercial "scout" rifles in use today use detachable magazines.

If you study Coopers concept it did evolve over the years. His idea of the perfect rifle changed somewhat, and if he were still around I firmly believe he would have continued to let his perfect rifle continue to evolve.

Forward mounted scopes are a handicap, but if you want to be able to reload a rifle fast using stripper clips are a necessary evil. I see no reason for them to continue to be on a "scout" rifle with the use of detachable magazines and better modern optics. A small 1-4X or similar scope mounted conventionally does everything better. And I believe Cooper would agree if he were still alive.
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Cooper spoke at great length about the advantage of using a foreward mounted scope. Namely the use of peripheral vision. Checkout his write up in gun digest, circa 1987.
 
sparkyv said:
I have my RGSR setup with a forward mounted scope and don't see any disadvantages or handicap. Can you please provide some details to your statement on this, jmr40? Honest, nonconfrentational inquiry.
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I'm glad you asked this as the comment confused me as well. I've heard the opposite about forward mounted optics and when I read it I was wondering if I missed something.
 
someguy2800 said:
how long do the batteries last on some of these new generation mid priced red dots last? I have owned a couple older cheap ones and I always forget to turn them off.
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Ive been using Aimpoint M2/ML2's for about 20 years now. Even the older sights have decent battery life (M2's are about 1 year, constant on) and I leave the couple I use all the time on, 24/7/365, and change the batteries in the fall, with the smoke detectors. The newer Aimpoints have amazing battery life.

Just recently, I was looking for a cheaper red dot for a couple of M&P 15-22's, and didnt see spending Aimpoint money on them. I ended up with a couple of SIG Romeo 5's with the "shake awake" feature. I think they were $129 on sale at PSA.

So far, they seem to work as advertised. The only caveat is, the shake awake is good for if you forget to turn them off when you put them away, as long as they arent subject to any kind of vibration or movement, but if they get jostled in the least, they will be on again. If you plan on leaving them on and ride around in your car, the battery life probably wont be all that great. Id turn them off for that.

They arent an Aimpoint, but I think for a gun thats not going to get any real hard use, they would be fine. They also use cheap 2032 batteries, so thats a savings too.
 
I had never given a red dot much thought until following this thread . Found a Vortex Venom over the weekend . Feels nice in the hands , the scope was nice but too clunky for me.

IMG_1636.JPG IMG_3311.JPG
 
Some guns just say "NO" too. :)

I tried a couple of sorta Scout's using Winchester Trappers in 44mag, with both scopes and red dots. The concept works for the most part, but it just wasnt right. Adding extra crap to very handy little guns just doesnt work and takes the handiness out of them.

Some guns are just meant to be used with simple irons and a decent sling, and nothing more. The lever guns and some of the bolt guns just scream "Leave Me Alone!" At least thats what my FR-8 always said when I kinda gave it that look. :)
 
chicharrones said:
I think if he'd been born in the 1950s or 1960s instead of 1920, he'd still be alive and like red dots just fine.
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He might like them, but they wouldn't fit his criteria for optics. A 2" or 3" MOA reticle wouldn't allow for much degree of precision shooting at all at the maximum 450 meters that he specified for the platform. Then there's the issue of dead batteries. I know, I know....they last up to a year. But things never go wrong in the field, especially when you're sitting in your recliner.

35W
 
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