New Winchester Model 70 30-06 feed problem with Remington Core Lokt SP 180gr (round nose)

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Strife21

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I have a new Model 70 Supergrade 30-06 with the controlled feed.

I seem to be having issues with the Remington core lokt SP 180gr ammo with the fatter round nose. It feeds fine from the right side of the follower but about 40% of the box will not feed properly from the left side of the follower. (As the rounds are staggered right to left in the magazine) I have tried several different boxes.

What happens is the rounds go up and to the right and the nose of the bullet hits the straight vertical edge to the right of the chamber opening that connects to the lug recess for the extractor on the bolt. Basically the nose of the bullet japs into the corner that leads into the chamber.

The ones that do actually feed from the left side have a sliver of the led pushed away. These ones seem to keep feeding if they worked the first time, however occasionally if I pull the bolt back on the ones that did feed from the left there are times when it’s not actually in the claw extractor and is almost as if it was pushed into the chamber and I have to tilt the gun to remove the round. The ones that didn’t feed from the left never seem to feed and keep getting hung up on the corner of the chamber and extractor recess edge.

Now the interesting part. Core Lokt 180gr PSP rounds seem to feed fine from both sides of the follower. And don’t seem to lose any material either. They seem like they go straight down the middle. They have a more pointed tip obviously.

I have also tried Federal Powershok 150gr SP and those fed flawlessly too but once again a more pointed tip. Also snap caps from A-zoom feed flawlessly.

Just to note I know not to gingerly close the bolt and to do it with some force so that’s not the issue at hand.

Any idea why this would be happening? I looked at the extractor but everything seems to look normal. Is there anything I should be looking for? If so a picture with some arrows of a circle of where to look would be a big help.
 
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not being a Winchester or CRF guy I can't really help, but im sure someone will be along with a better idea soon......but in the mean time
My initial thought would be that there maybe an issue with the left side feed rails, or possibly the follower causing the rounds to not stack quite right. The pointy bullets stick out to the sides as much and thus it doesn't affect them as it does the roundnose.
 
So, I have five Winchester M70's. This in no way makes me any type of expert, but I've used the heck out that action. As long as I fully retract the bolt on my rifles, they operate great.

Your conundrum is this, as I see it: you have one bullet type/ammo that just doesn't work. Sounds like it's 100% with other bullet profiles. That's probably not "correct," but in the long run, do you really want to shoot the RN ammo for any reason? Partitions, A-Frames, T- and TTSX bullets are all going to do just as well as the RN ammo, and probably better. And, they should all feed great.

So, you can troubleshoot, send back to the factory, see a gunsmith...or, you could just not worry about it. I think you see which way I would go if I were you.

Best of luck, they are great rifles!
 
Never had an issue with any Winchester feeding, CRF or the PF versions. But to be honest I've never tried RN bullets either. The OAL will be shorter with RN, and they are going to be thicker toward the front which changes some things.

Personally, if it were mine, I'd just not shoot RN bullets. But it should work with them. Not many gunsmiths that know how to tune a CRF rifle so I don't know who to suggest other than contacting Winchester CS. Just a SWAG, but your extractor may need to be tweaked a bit.

Original CRF rifles would not allow you to feed rounds into the chamber unless you 1st put them in the magazine. The rim would pop into the extractor before it was completely out of the magazine. But most people today want to top off with a full mag +1 in the chamber. The extractor on most modern CRF rifles is beveled to allow it to snap over the rim when single loading. This usually means there is a very short distance the cartridge moves before the rim slides under the extractor. You may be pushing the cartridge in front of the extractor for a bit longer than usual on one side which is changing the angle just enough for RN to not feed.

That's just a guess, but the best I can come up with.
 
jmr40 said:
Never had an issue with any Winchester feeding, CRF or the PF versions. But to be honest I've never tried RN bullets either. The OAL will be shorter with RN, and they are going to be thicker toward the front which changes some things.

Personally, if it were mine, I'd just not shoot RN bullets. But it should work with them. Not many gunsmiths that know how to tune a CRF rifle so I don't know who to suggest other than contacting Winchester CS. Just a SWAG, but your extractor may need to be tweaked a bit.

Original CRF rifles would not allow you to feed rounds into the chamber unless you 1st put them in the magazine. The rim would pop into the extractor before it was completely out of the magazine. But most people today want to top off with a full mag +1 in the chamber. The extractor on most modern CRF rifles is beveled to allow it to snap over the rim when single loading. This usually means there is a very short distance the cartridge moves before the rim slides under the extractor. You may be pushing the cartridge in front of the extractor for a bit longer than usual on one side which is changing the angle just enough for RN to not feed.

That's just a guess, but the best I can come up with.
Click to expand...

Well I tried some Norma Whitetail 150gr today and it did the same thing a little less frequently. But it’s just unacceptable it will not feed two different types of ammo so back to Winchester it goes.

They are good to deal with so I’m sure it will get fixed. I have a Alaskan M70 30-06 too that hax some feed issues (while different then this) that I sent back a while ago that they fixed. I also noticed even when it does successfully feed any type of ammo sometimes it’s not getting grabbed by the claw and is getting almost push fed into the barrel. So there is some kind of issue.

If I close the bolt nice and hard with out locking it to the right then pull back, sometimes the round is not in the extractor but just sitting in the chamber. So there is something up.

Just pisses me off that I have gotten two different ones with feed issues. I also have a maple super grade that’s been with them for almost a year never fired. Cause there is a hairline crack on the ebony tip. They replaced it and it came back with a crush and bigger crack on the ebony tip of the new stock they put on. Then back it went and it came back with a stock that was touching the barrel and warped. Sent it back again but they have no maple stocks as it’s on back order. It’s been over a year and I have never even had a chance to remove the factory grease let alone shoot that rifle.

poor quality control at this point.
 
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Strife21 said:
Well I tried some Norma Whitetail 150gr today and it did the same thing a little less frequently. But it’s just unacceptable it will not feed two different types of ammo so back to Winchester it goes.

They are good to deal with so I’m sure it will get fixed. I have a Alaskan M70 30-06 too that hax some feed issues (while different then this) that I sent back a while ago that they fixed. I also noticed even when it does successfully feed any type of ammo sometimes it’s not getting grabbed by the claw and is getting almost push fed into the barrel. So there is some kind of issue.

If I close the bolt nice and hard with out locking it to the right then pull back, sometimes the round is not in the extractor but just sitting in the chamber. So there is something up.

Just pisses me off that I have gotten two different ones with feed issues. I also have a maple super grade that’s been with them for almost a year never fired. Cause there is a hairline crack on the ebony tip. They replaced it and it came back with a crush and bigger crack on the ebony tip of the new stock they put on. Then back it went and it came back with a stock that was touching the barrel and warped. Sent it back again but they have no maple stocks as it’s on back order. It’s been over a year and I have never even had a chance to remove the factory grease let alone shoot that rifle.

poor quality control at this point.
Click to expand...

That’s not good! Sounds like the new Winchester factory is having serious issues.
 
I’ll make sure to report back in a month or so with an update. My feeling is it’s the timing with the extractor.
 
Got the rifle back in about 3-4 weeks. Took it to the range today and it does the exact same thing. They said they did minor repairs but wouldn’t tell me what. They said send it back again at this point I’m going to demand a refund. I can’t go through sending this back and forth 4 times like I have had to do with the maple super grade which they have had for over a year as they don’t have any to replace it with.
 
Strife21 said:
I have a new Model 70 Supergrade 30-06 with the controlled feed.

I seem to be having issues with the Remington core lokt SP 180gr ammo with the fatter round nose. It feeds fine from the right side of the follower but about 40% of the box will not feed properly from the left side of the follower. (As the rounds are staggered right to left in the magazine) I have tried several different boxes.

What happens is the rounds go up and to the right and the nose of the bullet hits the straight vertical edge to the right of the chamber opening that connects to the lug recess for the extractor on the bolt. Basically the nose of the bullet japs into the corner that leads into the chamber.

The ones that do actually feed from the left side have a sliver of the led pushed away. These ones seem to keep feeding if they worked the first time, however occasionally if I pull the bolt back on the ones that did feed from the left there are times when it’s not actually in the claw extractor and is almost as if it was pushed into the chamber and I have to tilt the gun to remove the round. The ones that didn’t feed from the left never seem to feed and keep getting hung up on the corner of the chamber and extractor recess edge.

Now the interesting part. Core Lokt 180gr PSP rounds seem to feed fine from both sides of the follower. And don’t seem to lose any material either. They seem like they go straight down the middle. They have a more pointed tip obviously.

I have also tried Federal Powershok 150gr SP and those fed flawlessly too but once again a more pointed tip. Also snap caps from A-zoom feed flawlessly.

Just to note I know not to gingerly close the bolt and to do it with some force so that’s not the issue at hand.

Any idea why this would be happening? I looked at the extractor but everything seems to look normal. Is there anything I should be looking for? If so a picture with some arrows of a circle of where to look would be a big help.
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I had this problem with a factory new USRA M70 action, and rounds would nose dive into the extractor cut on the rifle side of the barrel. I finally figured out what the problem was.

Bad receiver:

mho5TyG.jpg

Good receiver

BxDQxNd.jpg

It all has to do with the timing of release, and material removed from the right rail. Can you see that the right rail on the bad receiver is slightly scalloped? The good receiver rail is straight.

As rounds on the left, come out of the magazine, they angle off to the right. The bullet taps that rail, and then the cartridge is released from the magazine and tries to straighten out before going in the chamber. But, with material removed on the right receiver rail, the bullet goes too far to the right, and does not have the distance to straighten out, instead, nose diving into the extractor groove.

You cannot fix this. Not really. It will always be out of tolerance and will never be reliable in feed. If this is a new rifle, send it back and get a receiver that is properly machined.

I purchased a new Winchester M70, because you could not buy just receivers. I sent the rifle to a gunsmith, had the bad receiver made into a match rifle, and only then did I find out that it was defectively machined. I called USRA Customer service and they laughed at me when I told them the modifications that I had made to the rifle to use it in NRA Highpower competition. Nothing I did though, modified the feed geometry, that was a factory fault. Needless to say, they would not replace the receiver.

I hope those bozo's had a back slapping good time in the unemployment line, as USRA went bankrupt.
 
Well the gun is back with them and they gave to their master smith and say they can’t reproduce the issue but they aren’t using the ammo I mentioned.

This is completely pointless unless we are doing apples to apples.

Instead they are using Remington 220gr Round Nose which has the same bullet profile but is longer I think. It being longer probably effecting the angle going into the chamber and does feed. They also tested with some Winchester 180gr but that is a pointed profile.

they didn’t listen to what I said about ejecting the round after chambering to check for the slivers that are getting shaved off the tip of the bullets that do actually feed and are firing the rounds they chamber. Which completely doesn’t help me prove anything.

I even had pictures printed of the damage to my ammo and sent them along with the gun when I sent it in the second time.

I’m completely depressed and stressed out by this I would just sell the gun but I don’t want to give my problem to someone else.
 
Strife21 said:
Well the gun is back with them and they gave to their master smith and say they can’t reproduce the issue but they aren’t using the ammo I mentioned.

This is completely pointless unless we are doing apples to apples.

Instead they are using Remington 220gr Round Nose which has the same bullet profile but is longer I think. It being longer probably effecting the angle going into the chamber and does feed. They also tested with some Winchester 180gr but that is a pointed profile.

they didn’t listen to what I said about ejecting the round after chambering to check for the slivers that are getting shaved off the tip of the bullets that do actually feed and are firing the rounds they chamber. Which completely doesn’t help me prove anything.

I even had pictures printed of the damage to my ammo and sent them along with the gun when I sent it in the second time.

I’m completely depressed and stressed out by this I would just sell the gun but I don’t want to give my problem to someone else.
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Your experience is frustrating. My suggestion, find a bullet and OAL at which the rifle will reliably feed, and use those exclusively. There are lots of 150's, 165's spire points, experiment with a few, and in my experience with my 308 Win, you are going to have to shorten the OAL to improve feed reliability.
 
If you really want the gun to function with that ammo. Take that ammo and gun to a local gunsmith and ask him to make it work. It will cost money but if they are a good gunsmith it will work with that ammo.
 
I mean I guess this is a bit more being OCD and the principle of it. I don't really care for that ammo necessarily I just feel if I spend a decent chunk of money for something it should work as intended so its more of the principle of it and the lack of quality control on multiple occasions.

They did reach back out today and said they are trying to track down some Remington Core Lokt 180gr round nose to have a apples to apples comparison with my experience. So at least they are trying. I just hope they don't think I am making this up because the last thing I want to be doing is sending multiple rifles back and forth.
 
mcb said:
If you really want the gun to function with that ammo. Take that ammo and gun to a local gunsmith and ask him to make it work. It will cost money but if they are a good gunsmith it will work with that ammo.
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Yes, take it to a good gunsmith. If a contlrolled feed bolt action has feeding problems it is common for the rounds from the left side of the action to hang up. The rails need to be adjusted and when the gunsmith makes the adjustment any bullet shape should feed very smooth.
 
sage5907 said:
Yes, take it to a good gunsmith. If a contlrolled feed bolt action has feeding problems it is common for the rounds from the left side of the action to hang up. The rails need to be adjusted and when the gunsmith makes the adjustment any bullet shape should feed very smooth.
Click to expand...

luckily Griffin and Howe is somewhat nearby and I would trust them to do the work just sucks I have to pay for something that is new to be fixed.

https://griffinhowe.com/
 
sage5907 said:
Yes, take it to a good gunsmith. If a contlrolled feed bolt action has feeding problems it is common for the rounds from the left side of the action to hang up. The rails need to be adjusted and when the gunsmith makes the adjustment any bullet shape should feed very smooth.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is an easy thing to fix. You have to look at a modern M70 receiver to see, where that right rail is dimensionally off, (probably) the rail is extremely thin, and just at the feed ramp. That right rail is about the thickness of card stock. You cannot fix this by removing material, the fix is to add material. I don't know how someone would do that. Welding a thin section like that right rail, and then machining it down, I would like a real welder to state the rail won't be burnt through or warped. I don't know how to do that.

The best solution is for Winchester to replace the receiver.
 
I had to get on Google Earth to see where Andover, NJ is located. If you take it to Griffin & Howe let us know what the gunsmith said. Being this close to hunting season it may take a while to get it fixed.
 
You may have some bad cartridges. It's rare to happen, but it does happen especially during Covid-19. If you can determine which ones frequently jam, use those for practice or site in and use the good ones for hunting. You may be too young, but Remington had a semi auto rifle nick named " the jam-a-matic" because it didn't like anyone's reloads and was finicky with whose brand new ammo it would reliably eject.
 
100% not the ammo I took the same ammo that jammed to the range with my Dads Mode 70 Alaskan I got him last year for a second time this weekend and every single round fed no problem. I did this process 125 times. 0% failure to feed.

So I kept at it with Winchester and explained using the cartridges they had was not an apples to apples comparison as bullet length and angle may have been different.

Anyway I asked them to talk to some employees in the office to see if they could find any Remington Core-Lokt 180 grain round nose and one of the employees father had a un-used box from a while ago and they brought it in. I offered to pay but they wouldn’t take my money.

They called me Monday morning and said the Master Smith with 45 years experience and their model 70 guru loaded the gun with the ammo and on the first feed from the left side of magazine the gun jammed up just as I had described.

They said the issue baffled them but the smith worked on it and got it feeding correctly by replacing the magazine box and and doing some minor modifications to the feed ramp.

Rifle will be here tomorrow and I can report back.
 
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sage5907 said:
I had to get on Google Earth to see where Andover, NJ is located. If you take it to Griffin & Howe let us know what the gunsmith said. Being this close to hunting season it may take a while to get it fixed.
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hopefully I don’t have to take it there now that Winchester witnessed the issue. But yes I was prepared to be without the rifle as I’m sure even not during hunting season their backlog is huge. They do so some impressive stuff there. But I don’t trust many other smiths around here and I know they won’t bork anything up. I’m from PA so it’s about an hour drive there.
 
Check that feed ramp like suggested. I doublt if the extractor has anything to do with it.
 
So got the gun back today just got it cleaned, oiled and my scope mounted, didn't have time to take it to range and test it today to see how it feeds. However they definitely took significant material off the left rail and filed the feed ramp some. I'm a little worried about how much material they took off but I guess I just gotta wait and see how it works with the modifications they made. Just worries me cause whatever they took off can never be put back on again.

Also I sent my rifle back in the box it came with when I purchased it, like every other time I have sent something to Winchester as it provides ample protection. They did not return my original box like they have in the past and sent back the rifle in some make shift box with far less protection. So I am going to have to call them to see if I can get that back now.

Here is a picture of my Model 70 super grade rails vs a picture of my Dads Model 70 Alaskan. My left rail used to look similar to his before I got it back.
 

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My reaction when this thing first started was that the front of the left rail should be adjusted so the bullets coming out of the left side of the magazine stay further left and that is what Winchester did. I can also understand why they smoothed the ramp on the left side. On a Model 70 Winchester when you place the safety in the center position the firing pin is locked and bullets can be safely cycled through the action.
 
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So the damn thing fed every single type of ammo I threw at it. Shot about 70 rounds, 100% reliable.
 
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