Mike OTDP
Member
The Upper Marlboro show was pretty good-sized, about 300-350 tables.
The Baltimore Antique Arms Show is in a completely different class. It's a museum...with the exhibits on sale. There are people who come from Europe to that one.
Start a gun show
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The Upper Marlboro show was pretty good-sized, about 300-350 tables.
The Baltimore Antique Arms Show is in a completely different class. It's a museum...with the exhibits on sale. There are people who come from Europe to that one.
FROGO207
Member
I also went to my local show to help them get the numbers up to keep it going. Pay $8 to walk around and watch everybody interacy was well worth the price of admission. At least all the vendors were gun and knife related. Some private sellers there as well.
Starting a new series of gun shows in the local climate would be a non starter around here. The last of the local small shows dried up 15 or so years ago. The one promoter doing statewide shows has outlasted all the smaller shows and they put alot into announcingthe area shows in local papers and on radio so it is a fair investment to pull off. Still it seems they get smaller numbers of vendors each year.
Starting a new series of gun shows in the local climate would be a non starter around here. The last of the local small shows dried up 15 or so years ago. The one promoter doing statewide shows has outlasted all the smaller shows and they put alot into announcingthe area shows in local papers and on radio so it is a fair investment to pull off. Still it seems they get smaller numbers of vendors each year.
Poper
Member
I think they call it "Gunbroker".....
Elkins45
Member
The cost of admission, parking and gas for me to go to a show Louisville or Lexington is less than the cost of hazmat plus shipping. Back in the day if I wanted a case of primers or some powder (remember those?) I would buy them at a show rather than order online because it was cheaper.
I went to a terrible small 50 table show the other day. I didn’t want anything but I went anyway just in case I saw something that caught my fancy, to get out of the house and (mostly) to encourage the guy to keep having them.
I went to a terrible small 50 table show the other day. I didn’t want anything but I went anyway just in case I saw something that caught my fancy, to get out of the house and (mostly) to encourage the guy to keep having them.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Not knowing where you are as to state and local laws it's hard to give a good factual answer.
Years ago my wife and I actively worked the local shows as we promoted our gun shop. Here in Ohio a very good show was The Berea Gun Show held at the Cuyahoga County Fairgrounds. This is typically a 1,000 table show as I remember it and the promoter family were real nice people. Here in Ohio we do have "private sale" where it is perfectly legal to transfer a firearm less a 4473 form and background check. A good show will limit the sale of crap like beef jerky and arts and crafts junk and also put all the stuff like it in one small area of one small building. Last I knew this show had free parking and a $7.00 admission.
When it comes to things like taxes and financial management you would do well to have an accountant unless you have a great understanding of tax codes and finance. Insurance is another large expense and liability cost can be high.
We also did 50 to 60 table shows at various VFW Post, American Legion Post, as well as a show at a local Travel Lodge Motel.
While Facebook is nice if you expect participation (sellers and buyers) you need good promotion. Take note of what other successful promoters are doing to promote these events. Not just gun shows but other events including arts and crafts to technology events. Unless you can get a good draw your clients will be gone in a heartbeat. Nobody works a show which nobody attends. Also take note of what you will be competing against. My wife and I considered promoting shows but there were already well established shows in our area. We concluded there was no money to be had starting out for us. If you plan on starting small with 50 to 60 tables (8 foot tables) consider setup and locations like VFW or American Legion halls. Again, look to your local laws and state laws. Here is the website for the shows we worked and I see where tables are now $55.00 so times have changed.
Make damn sure you have yourself covered for liability! Ron
DustyGmt
Member
I don't understand a $5 transfer. Who wastes their time doing anything for $5. I'm not particularly fond of the $100 transfer, or even $50. But $25-$30 seems to be about right, I just don't understand why anybody would even go through the hassle for $5.
J-Bar
Member
Contact some of the large gun show sponsors and offer to work for them for free. Be up front with your reasons. You will have to travel and invest some time. You need a mentor or two, sorry I have nothing else to offer.
dogtown tom
Member
You need a business plan.
You own/bought 50 tables? Or only have room for 50 tables at your preferred venues?
You can rent tables and chairs.
Before renting any venue, make sure they know you will provide all the loopholes.
Seriously, not all venues will allow a gun show.
You'll fail. Facebook is like the Yellow Pages......you have to know what you are looking for in order to find it. Quite a few conservatives avoid Facebook like a leper in the hot tub.
The most successful gun show promotor in Dallas budgets dealer table fees for advertising. If she sells 1200 tables at Fort Worth for $90 each.....thats her advertising budget for the next FW show. She runs radio and TV ads and billboards on major highways. She also distributes flyers at every show in Texas about her upcoming shows. Its her business, not a hobby.
How did you arrive at that?
No way in heck would I pay $10 admission to a gun show with less than 200 tables. For 50 tables it better be free and a coupon for a cold hot dog on a stale bun.
Again, how did you arrive at that figure?
Discounts for multiple tables?
Do you only have room for 50 tables?
Again a business plan that details venue rental, utilities, security, insurance, etc is needed before you ever begin to calculate what you are going to charge attendees and vendors.
But, but, but........why?
Guns shows have people lining up for blocks and you think a drawing is needed to attract them?
What brings people to gun shows is lots of dealers with guns, lots of collectors with guns and above all lots of guns. You won't get lots of dealers and lots of collectors unless you can draw hordes of attendees. Its a Catch 22.
Edited to add:
I couldn't find it last night, but OP needs to understand the following:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/n...earms-licensees-newsletter-june-2010/download
So, in order to have a gun show, one needs a sponsoring organization who meets the description above.
"KY Dan Hunt Club" could be incorporated as a non profit, tax exempt organization and then HIRE a promotor to manage and operate it's gun shows.
For many years the Big Town Gun Show in Dallas was sponsored by "North Texas Gun Club".....which had a board of directors but there was no way to join. The BOD was oddly the same family that was contracted to run that show.
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dogtown tom
Member
You ain't been to Texas.
Bcwitt
Member
It is extremely irritating to pay admission to a show that isnt very good. I won't go to one.
Admission prices tend to follow how much a ticket to the movies cost. It's an entertainment tax for three hours. So, the "movie" needs to be a good one.
In our area we are consistently seeing MORE shows, and that is good. Covid has impacted the economy and affected cash flow, Im seeing indications it won't get better for the next year. We haven't even got our 2020 refunds yet. Disposable income is the backbone of the gun show, if you don't have $100s of dollars to walk in (as if a ticket price is an obstacle) then it's a problem. And those attending aren't ignorant of the internet, their business model is often more agricultural and haggling over feeder calf prices, grain sales etc is their forte. Also trades, who attend a lot more than specialty gun collectors looking for older 3d Gen Smiths.
I've seen the cancellations in metros and coastal states, all I can say is it should be expected. Keeping away from those areas would be part of the business model. 50 tables is inadequate, 250 would be minimum. Renting in less well known show buildings isn't an issue, advertising must happen regardless, and it's a destination event anyway. Which is why Walmart no longer buys footage on major roadways. Lowers their taxes etc and you'll drive the extra block to get back there to the store. "Destination."
Keeping the jerky, guttering salesmen and other non gun non militaria exhibitors to a minimum is a major issue. Since table prices are now running $80, I don't see $50 as profitable. One show I attended last year had a "damascus" knife purveyor and he covered 20 - twenty- tables with merchandise. That was $1,600 in table fees alone. I don't see how he made any profit with room and board etc added to his overhead. I do see more and more trailers at events now, which is one way to cut overhead costs for those on the circuit.
One major and highly important rule needs to be followed: Keep that date/location active if at all possible. Too many gunshows were last week - dang, I missed it. But the one you will go to? @#$%% IT'S CANCELLED!?! *&%$$#@ That doubles down on the disappointment and it's the shows fault. It will be held against you and won't be forgotten.
Advice? Start with ONE, 1, show in your area and see how it goes. At the monetary rates posted I would expect it to crater - IE no profit in the hole and creditors ringing the phone. Sorry, not sorry. The overhead and business expenses will eat up all the profit and more.
These are the two show calendars I've found helpful: https://gunshowtrader.com/gun-shows/ http://www.gunshows-usa.com/
In our area we are consistently seeing MORE shows, and that is good. Covid has impacted the economy and affected cash flow, Im seeing indications it won't get better for the next year. We haven't even got our 2020 refunds yet. Disposable income is the backbone of the gun show, if you don't have $100s of dollars to walk in (as if a ticket price is an obstacle) then it's a problem. And those attending aren't ignorant of the internet, their business model is often more agricultural and haggling over feeder calf prices, grain sales etc is their forte. Also trades, who attend a lot more than specialty gun collectors looking for older 3d Gen Smiths.
I've seen the cancellations in metros and coastal states, all I can say is it should be expected. Keeping away from those areas would be part of the business model. 50 tables is inadequate, 250 would be minimum. Renting in less well known show buildings isn't an issue, advertising must happen regardless, and it's a destination event anyway. Which is why Walmart no longer buys footage on major roadways. Lowers their taxes etc and you'll drive the extra block to get back there to the store. "Destination."
Keeping the jerky, guttering salesmen and other non gun non militaria exhibitors to a minimum is a major issue. Since table prices are now running $80, I don't see $50 as profitable. One show I attended last year had a "damascus" knife purveyor and he covered 20 - twenty- tables with merchandise. That was $1,600 in table fees alone. I don't see how he made any profit with room and board etc added to his overhead. I do see more and more trailers at events now, which is one way to cut overhead costs for those on the circuit.
One major and highly important rule needs to be followed: Keep that date/location active if at all possible. Too many gunshows were last week - dang, I missed it. But the one you will go to? @#$%% IT'S CANCELLED!?! *&%$$#@ That doubles down on the disappointment and it's the shows fault. It will be held against you and won't be forgotten.
Advice? Start with ONE, 1, show in your area and see how it goes. At the monetary rates posted I would expect it to crater - IE no profit in the hole and creditors ringing the phone. Sorry, not sorry. The overhead and business expenses will eat up all the profit and more.
These are the two show calendars I've found helpful: https://gunshowtrader.com/gun-shows/ http://www.gunshows-usa.com/
AlexanderA
Member
Reasons:
1. As a "loss leader" to get people in the door.
2. For a "kitchen table" amateur dealer, this is a way to increase his volume of transfers and help prove to the ATF that he is bona fide.
I suspect that there have been many costly lessons learned in this arena. Gun shows have always been popular here, but they struggle nonetheless with issues like the conflict between selling more tables vs flea market, trinket and craft sellers. Getting input from internet experts is well and good, but the best information will come from those who have produced successful shows, perhaps in another market. In these parts, the Dakota Territory Gun Collectors Association is the network, and shows are bought and sold among members.
A good gun show is a great way to get out and enjoy a frosty February Saturday with friends regardless of which side of the table you occupy. There are many obstacles to a successful show, however, and a combination of careful planning, due diligence and skill can be overcome by a pandemic, foul weather, local restrictions or disgruntled vendors. Good luck!
A good gun show is a great way to get out and enjoy a frosty February Saturday with friends regardless of which side of the table you occupy. There are many obstacles to a successful show, however, and a combination of careful planning, due diligence and skill can be overcome by a pandemic, foul weather, local restrictions or disgruntled vendors. Good luck!
dogtown tom
Member
<-----kitchen table dealer since 2008
$5 wasn't worth my time in 2008 and certainly would not be today.
The concept of a "loss leader" for a kitchen table transfer dealer escapes me.
ATF doesn't give a rats hiney how many transfers a dealer does to be bona fide. I know several that do ZERO sales and transfers and are fully bona fide.
Every transfer dealer I know of in DFW that tried the "cheapest transfers in Texas!!!" route is out of business. Mainly because thats not a good business plan.
Speedo66
Member
Local show used to provide admission gratis to LE, then was bought out by another promoter who stopped the practice and raised the admission price.
Unless I was actually buying a gun, tacking $10 on to anything I bought made it unfeasible to go there.
I wasn't a fan of the crowds there to begin with, now, with nobody there wearing a mask, I'll abstain.
I don't know if Covid is keeping people away from events like this, but something else for the OP to consider.
I'm one of those who would go to a gun show any chance I had, not anymore. Most vendors asking highly inflated prices is my reason for not utilizing that market outlet any longer and I'm not alone. With any luck when (if) things return to normal and vendors start offering their supplies at reasonable and or discount prices like it used to be then I'll consider going again.
.308 Norma
Member
I agree. And you said it yourself, Speedo66 - you're not "a fan" of crowds to begin with, so you're going to stay away from crowds where nobody there is wearing a mask. I feel the same way.
However, there's always the other side of the story, and that side might be another reason why right now is not a good time to start a gunshow. I've mentioned before that we have a daughter who is a wheel with the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. RMEF's largest public event is "Elk Camp," which is held annually at different resort locations. Covid cancelled Park City, Utah's "Elk Camp" last year, and according to what our daughter told us a few days ago, "Elk Camp" in Las Vegas this year might be in trouble - not because of covid per se, but because Nevada's Governor has issued a mask mandate at indoor public events, and a lot of people don't like being told they have to wear masks.
Like gunshows, RMEF (and a good many other organizations) depends on drawing crowds to their events of course. And if people stay away because most people don't wear masks, OR because people don't like being told they have to wear masks, it's not hard to see what's going to happen to those organizations.
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Reloadron
Contributing Member
I have to agree. I look for pieces and parts as I wander a show. Went to a show in North Carolina, Winston Salem while visiting friends. Found a complete M14 wood stock in perfect condition including all the metal. Asked how much? I bought the stock assembly for $30 done deal. I have also found several good deals on handguns and rifles all private sales. I guess it all depends on what one is looking for.
Ron
I live in El Paso Texas. Gunshows suck now. Mosins for 800$? This was BEFORE COVID. All I ever bought was odds and ends. Even the one in Las Cruces sucks, one side is 90% poly and wonder 9's, the other is 50% arts and crafts ( there are two good arts and craft tables though: a leatherworker who makes holsters, and an elderly couple who make kydex holsters), and overpriced "vintage " guns.You ain't been to Texas.
CapnMac
Member
No lie, we're keepin Lone Star and Saxet in business along wit Premiere . . .
Shoot, even the Houston Gun Collector's Association is still hanging on, even with no venue in Harris County.
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