Dale Alan
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Don't believe everything you read coming from those guys. New production Lapua 6 BR Norma has a flash hole of .062" pin gauges do not lie, the folks at Accurate do lie .
Tiny flash holes...
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GeoDudeFlorida
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My advice is to learn the converse statement is equally true, If the shooter thinks it hinders, then it does.
Something else I learned over the decades: A lack of data is neither indicative nor conclusive. There’s never a correlation between the lack of and the negation of… anything.
CQB45ACP
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Thanks for your advice, I agree completely with your first statement…and learned it first 60 years ago in kids sports—easy to psych yourself out—don’t know when you learned it.
As for your second statement, I largely disagree—it’s simply incorrect in so many contexts to say the lack of data isn’t indicative. I too have learned this over decades. It is often not just indicative, it can be evidentiary.
If one makes a statement purporting to be fact yet has no data to support it or are unwilling to provide such data, then the lack of data is indeed often an indicator (not evidence perhaps, but certainly an indicator) the statement is incomplete, inaccurate, or perhaps even untrue. Trying a case in a court of law as a prosecutor or defense counsel without data teaches one a lot.
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CQB45ACP
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Actually the article does also mention as a note that the holes “max out at .62”. I don’t know the significance of all this but perhaps it’s not a lie? Sloppiness or a mistake are other possibilities.
Dale Alan
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Believe what you want , these BS debates are boring. Enjoy yourself.
CQB45ACP
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Chill man. Don’t read it if you’re bored.
But, It’s not boring to me to find out whether something suggested here or anywhere else is BS (as you put it) or legit.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Gotcha. In your mind everyone here is on trial for some not-yet-committed crime. Nice.
Have a good life.
CQB45ACP
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Well indications are this thread has run its course.
WRT small flash holes and whether drilling etc improves performance many indications are it’s a shooters preference. Some may believe the data shows more than that.
WRT small flash holes and whether drilling etc improves performance many indications are it’s a shooters preference. Some may believe the data shows more than that.
It is all pretty much covered in this section of the linked article. I have bolded the key points!
From a few scrap 9mm pieces of brass to all this (108 posts) good grief!
"Shooters who reload their brass several times may decide to uniform PPs and deburr FHs, especially on their “300-yard and beyond” brass. Here, they will use the cases many times, while the uniforming is performed only once. Also, most handloaders only process moderate amounts of brass, compared to our multi-thousand round lots.
Having high quality Long Range (LR) brass helps. Many of the better brass manufacturers [make] their flash holes so that no burrs are created. Still, it does pay to inspect even THESE manufacturer’s products, as occasional slips are inevitable. Very rarely, some of the best makers will have a significant burr in, say, 1 per 1000 or 2000 cases, and it’s worth catching those.
Exceptions can always be found. Recently, we began processing a large lot of match brass from a premier manufacturer. We were startled to find that every case had a significant burr in the FH — something we’d never before seen from this maker. We then broke out the FH deburring tools and went to work.
Some observers have noted that it can be difficult to truly verify the contribution to accuracy of these procedures — particularly when firing from the shoulder, in conditions. Members of this staff, as individual rifle competitors, do often perform these operations on their privately-owned LR rifle brass. One could ascribe this to the old High Power Rifle maxim that “if you think it helps, then it helps.”
However, a World Champion and Olympic Gold/Silver medalist here commented on his own handloading (for International competition, which demands VERY fine accuracy). He noted that he did seem to see a decline in accuracy whenever he did not uniform FHs, deburr FHs and clean primer pockets before each reloading. (One might be tempted to counter that only a truly World Class shooter could reliably detect the difference.) However, with the wisdom of decades experience, our Champion also remarked that “It could have been that I just wasn’t shooting as well that day.”
From a few scrap 9mm pieces of brass to all this (108 posts) good grief!
"Shooters who reload their brass several times may decide to uniform PPs and deburr FHs, especially on their “300-yard and beyond” brass. Here, they will use the cases many times, while the uniforming is performed only once. Also, most handloaders only process moderate amounts of brass, compared to our multi-thousand round lots.
Having high quality Long Range (LR) brass helps. Many of the better brass manufacturers [make] their flash holes so that no burrs are created. Still, it does pay to inspect even THESE manufacturer’s products, as occasional slips are inevitable. Very rarely, some of the best makers will have a significant burr in, say, 1 per 1000 or 2000 cases, and it’s worth catching those.
Exceptions can always be found. Recently, we began processing a large lot of match brass from a premier manufacturer. We were startled to find that every case had a significant burr in the FH — something we’d never before seen from this maker. We then broke out the FH deburring tools and went to work.
Some observers have noted that it can be difficult to truly verify the contribution to accuracy of these procedures — particularly when firing from the shoulder, in conditions. Members of this staff, as individual rifle competitors, do often perform these operations on their privately-owned LR rifle brass. One could ascribe this to the old High Power Rifle maxim that “if you think it helps, then it helps.”
However, a World Champion and Olympic Gold/Silver medalist here commented on his own handloading (for International competition, which demands VERY fine accuracy). He noted that he did seem to see a decline in accuracy whenever he did not uniform FHs, deburr FHs and clean primer pockets before each reloading. (One might be tempted to counter that only a truly World Class shooter could reliably detect the difference.) However, with the wisdom of decades experience, our Champion also remarked that “It could have been that I just wasn’t shooting as well that day.”
LiveLife
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Good post.
OP
OP
1976B.L.Johns.
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Lots of food for thought on a thread that I thought would never go this far!
The Glockodile
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Noooooo!
That pin was centuries old!
CoalCrackerAl
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I filed down a decap pin to .040 for the small flash holes. It still broke. I had a pile of .223 brass i ended up throwing in the scrap.
The Glockodile
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There's .223 Remington brass with smaller than usual flash holes?
Also by Norma?
CoalCrackerAl
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It has lk on the H.S.
vaalpens
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What size drill bit do you use?
This happens a lot with 357sig cases. During my reload process I normally put the cases flash hole up in a reloading tray, then use a decapping pin to lift out the cases with a tiny flash hole. When I develop loads, at least I try to use like-size flash hole cases.
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Ik22 is the latest headstamp of theirs I've come across in 5.56 and 9x19. Mostly won't break Lee pins, but it does kick the pin up and out. Purely for an experiment, I used the flash hole uniformer tool to open up the hole on 20 or so 9mm before depriming. Worked fine, but kinda tedious as I normally do not uniform 9mm before loading.
PWC
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I have an old Texan 30-06 die that I use as for universal deprime. All cases I shoot, rifle and handgun fit into this die with its tapered pin. I think old stuff was made more stout.
I don't shoot well enough to see a difference on the target, and I bet 99% of the shooters on this site can't either.
Reloading always used to be fun before I tried to follow all the science. When you have to work to have fun, it ceases to be fun and just becomes work.
I don't shoot well enough to see a difference on the target, and I bet 99% of the shooters on this site can't either.
Reloading always used to be fun before I tried to follow all the science. When you have to work to have fun, it ceases to be fun and just becomes work.
The Glockodile
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PWC
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Glockodile-Sounds like you need to sit down in the rocker on the porch, while I get you a glass of lemonade made with our well water from the windmill out in the pasture.
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CoalCrackerAl
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AK hunter there the ones i broke de-cap pins on. Today i rounded up brass at the club. And found 9mm with that H.S. It de-caped ok though.
Misplacedtexan
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Speer
gifbohane
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Ahhh................. For too long I thought that they were Berdans. Kept looking inside and seeing the two flash holes. Finally whaled on the Universal deprimer and out they came.
Eventually figured out that it was not worth it and now toss them all. Where are the Igmans made?
I agree on tossing them to the scrap bucket. My flash hole uniforming was just an experiment to see if it would make primers easier to remove. Igman is near Konjic, Bosnia and Herzegovina.
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