More Guns a Bad Idea? Ammo…$

I completely see where you're coming from. I got into guns November 2019, and since then I've seriously thought about just selling my things and finding another hobby, because of the current climate.

gobsauce said:

I completely see where you're coming from. I got i to guns November 2019, and since then I've seriously thought about just selling my things and finding another hobby, because of the current climate.

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PM me if you do!

Naw. I think now is still a good time for collecting, if not shooting per se- with runaway inflation, you sure dont want to be sitting on cash. Guns are durable, liquid assets that will continue to appreciate with the market, barring a general ban and confiscation, of course. You may not make money on them as an investment, but you probably wont lose any either.

Plus, they are alot more fun than a stack of bonds......

Huntolive said:

Also if there is a realistic way to affordably get the materials especially primers to produce Ammo safely effectively and at The cost of that makes it worth the time and effort then please share exactly how to go about that given the Current market.

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Start small. Look at a couple of rounds that you like to shoot. Maybe .38/.357 and .308. Know what powders you'll use and when you see a good deal and components, buy them. Hit garage sales for equipment, and buy some quality dies. You won't be set up by Friday, but you'll get there.

I have always kept a small collection of around 15 firearms. I buy and sell a lot to try new things so I have experience with many different guns. This is how I like it.

Less storage, less safes, less insurance, less anxiety about theft or fire, no high investment in security systems.

But the best part of low firearm investment is the ability to invest high in ammo to be able to weather these storms that like to crop up more and more often.

I don’t shoot a lot but I do shoot about 100 various rounds per month. It has always been mostly rimfire so that cost is always as low as it can be.

My advice is always buy fewer guns and more ammo. Buy whatever guns you want but always remember there will be costs of guns after purchase. The more guns you have the more of these after purchase costs will build up. Some are ok with this but it is something to consider.

gobsauce said:

I completely see where you're coming from. I got i to guns November 2019, and since then I've seriously thought about just selling my things and finding another hobby, because of the current climate.

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Not all of us are collectors. Selling a primary defense weapon or hunting rifle isn't a hobby so much as a tool. I may have sold off a few dozen knives, certainly a lot of surplus military equipment, and old collector tools are piling up to price for the flea market booth.

But not the actual guns. I have in the past, and may in the future with one or two that are largely unused - that cash value can go toward other more "needed' items. As for ammo availability, its not as bad as it looks. There is a factor we are unaware of - millions of new gun owners in the last few years. The ownership of firearms is reflected in the nearly month by month record NICS reports, and the ammo makers aren't ignoring the fact that the baseline numbers of shooters is increasing. That is a foundation in calculating consumption, which then goes to production.

All the ammo makers are running as hard as they safely can making more than ever to satisfy demand. It's really not hoarding so much as the significant number of new owners. While gun prices haven't gone up, the shelves are pretty bare and we still see some scalping for the more popular models. However the dealers and retail chains who normally stock are still getting their prorated share of product and the chains aren't all jumping up prices. I got a new carry pistol from one and it was their normal pricing - even tho they are usually sold out and remain so with many models.

What started as another ammo panic morphed into a new gun buying spree among new shooters. While older guns were snapped up along with them, those aren't being made and their popularity and rarity will still slowly inflate prices as the new shooters discover their "bones" and realize some of the significant models out there which are nice to have. Not necessarily primary defense or hunting - but "I have one and you don't" brag items.

Yeah, I'm a bit cynical about collecting knowing the real history of pre 63 Winchesters and Singer 1911's. Regardless of my opinion, those prices certainly aren't falling and likely won't flatline for a few more years until the niche groups of owner/wish list buyers start passing away. And it's getting closer every year. That group is who are buying up GI 1911's from the CMP right now, in 20 years they will be diminishing and a lot of those will pop up on the market. When that happens you generally don't see prices fall much - certainly not the 50% or more Mauser Broomhandles lost when the Chinese brooms hit the market by the thousands. It takes a huge volume to really kill the value.

If Korea had M1's or Carbines by the conex load in better grades and up, I think the market would absorb it. Long term, gun prices aren't suffering now, no indication they would in the future. Considering sword and saber prices have held well - yet they are considered practically useless for defense now, nobody carries an 18" hanger they way it was common in 1776 - yet one in decent shape won't be cheap. As long as the kids didn't go sword banging with it.

Plenty of evidence gun values will hold. Ammo has its peculiar issues right now, but it's improving, and building an ammo fort next year isn't an impossibility.

Yes, the cost of goods and services tend to increase over time.

I think it is both. A common refrain is that it is not hoarding but more about the new shooters. I don't buy that. I've helped a friend get a handgun and have heard plenty of second hand accounts. They get a box of SD ammo and a few boxes of range ammo. I think "hoarding" (a continuum) is far more rampant than people might want to admit. Take me for example, I've been on the look-out for relatively cheap ammo and I've increased my supply of 9mm by 2k and 5.56/223 by 3k throuigh savvy/timely purchases and trading what I had oodles of (e.g., 30 carbine).

Am I a hoarder? Depends on your definition, I'd say I'd get a reading on a "hoard-o-meter". However, I'm NOT a hoarder in the sense that I stockpile to sell/gouge others at the next crisis. I do sell to my close friends and family for pre-COVID prices on occasion...

I collect what I want and the slowdown hasn't impacted me too much in that way. I don't shoot all I collect.

I don’t really buy the ‘new gun owners’ theory either. My impression is that a lot of the new gun owners are just buying in panic mode. Get one while they can. Barring radical political changes I imagine a lot of these new guns will end up in a drawer or the local pawn shop.
Long term, shooting will become a rich man’s hobby like in some European countries.

I have enough ammo for all the guns (over 60) that I own, but also feel that it is time for me to start trimming the herd back, which I can sell with ammo and in most cases with reloading suplies.

Bob

Batty67 said:

I think it is both. A common refrain is that it is not hoarding but more about the new shooters. I don't buy that. I've helped a friend get a handgun and have heard plenty of second hand accounts. They get a box of SD ammo and a few boxes of range ammo. I think "hoarding" (a continuum) is far more rampant than people might want to admit. Take me for example, I've been on the look-out for relatively cheap ammo and I've increased my supply of 9mm by 2k and 5.56/223 by 3k throuigh savvy/timely purchases and trading what I had oodles of (e.g., 30 carbine).

Am I a hoarder? Depends on your definition, I'd say I'd get a reading on a "hoard-o-meter". However, I'm NOT a hoarder in the sense that I stockpile to sell/gouge others at the next crisis. I do sell to my close friends and family for pre-COVID prices on occasion...

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Times are changing. I remember just 10 years ago the closest indoor shooting range was 45 minutes away and that was it. Now there's 5 within the same driving distance. That's not hoarders, that's new shooters. A lot of those second hand accounts I've heard back that up, for instance my old boss found out I conceal carry last year. He mentioned his wife asked him to get his CCW because of all riots that were occurring during BLM marches. So he and his 3 son in laws each bought their first guns and took the CCW course. He bought his 50 round box of ammo and that was it, he said he doesn't really enjoy shooting but that his son in laws bought as much ammo as they could find and meet up regularly at the range.

I have increased my calibers due to the shortage. The more calibers the easier it is to find deals on ammo and supplies to reload. In all honesty the shortage has barely effected me, but I was well stock before it started. The only thing I really lack is that I am running short on small rifle primers. That said I have continued to shoot competitively and I have ammo and reloading supplied to keep me happily hunting for many years to come.

Its a rough situation no doubt about it. I guess my suggestion would be, in reference to ammo anyway, is pick up reloading equipment as it comes available. Kind of like Johnny Cash sang one piece at a time... You can still find presses for a fair price, powder seems to be showing up a little more often, I buy my brass in bulk directly from Starline, if it says out of stock but backorder-able I still place my order, it is done not take long for that order to fill. Dies are getting easier to come by for reasonable prices. Primers...yep, that is the catch and you can expect to pay $100 per 1000 after shipping fees when buying on line...absolutely ridiculous!

Stop buying guns for the time being. You'll have more money for ammo.

Even with inflated prices on primers you can still reload for well under $1 per round. You can save more money now than you could when a box of 357 cost $15. You might pay double what it costs before Covid but a box of ammo costs triple what it was before.

Suggest something that will help with the cost of ammo to feed a collection but that isn’t reloading.... start reloading.

You mentioned cost to get started. But you also mentioned $1 a shot revolver ammo. You can get everything you need to reload for only a few hundred dollars. It’ll be slow though. Add a Dillion for $500. Used prices. You don’t count the cost of your equipment any more than you count the cost of your deer rifle when you put meat in the freezer. You can sell the gear and recoup most or all of the cost if you change your mind.

Pay $100 for a brick of primers if you have to. Just because it’s more than it was 2 years ago doesn’t mean that it’s still not a great deal to reload your own. Where do you get them? Well I’ve gotten some from members I met on gun forums, got some from armslist, found some at the local stores. Heard about some online but ain’t seen none. But I also had some to start with when the shortage hit. Most I’ve paid was $100, but I’ve gotten some at $60 too over the last year.

Cast your own bullets or buddy up with a caster and work a trade.

One reason for the climate is all the money the government gave us. Folks had plenty of extra to by ammo. My buddy doesn’t reload and still shoots regularly, paying $.75-$1.00 a shot for 38 and 357. He shows no signs of slowing down. He just budgets more for ammo and happily plinks away. Refuses to learn reloading too.

Tirod said:

Not all of us are collectors. Selling a primary defense weapon or hunting rifle isn't a hobby so much as a tool. I may have sold off a few dozen knives, certainly a lot of surplus military equipment, and old collector tools are piling up to price for the flea market booth.

But not the actual guns. I have in the past, and may in the future with one or two that are largely unused - that cash value can go toward other more "needed' items. As for ammo availability, its not as bad as it looks. There is a factor we are unaware of - millions of new gun owners in the last few years. The ownership of firearms is reflected in the nearly month by month record NICS reports, and the ammo makers aren't ignoring the fact that the baseline numbers of shooters is increasing. That is a foundation in calculating consumption, which then goes to production.

All the ammo makers are running as hard as they safely can making more than ever to satisfy demand. It's really not hoarding so much as the significant number of new owners. While gun prices haven't gone up, the shelves are pretty bare and we still see some scalping for the more popular models. However the dealers and retail chains who normally stock are still getting their prorated share of product and the chains aren't all jumping up prices. I got a new carry pistol from one and it was their normal pricing - even tho they are usually sold out and remain so with many models.

What started as another ammo panic morphed into a new gun buying spree among new shooters. While older guns were snapped up along with them, those aren't being made and their popularity and rarity will still slowly inflate prices as the new shooters discover their "bones" and realize some of the significant models out there which are nice to have. Not necessarily primary defense or hunting - but "I have one and you don't" brag items.

Yeah, I'm a bit cynical about collecting knowing the real history of pre 63 Winchesters and Singer 1911's. Regardless of my opinion, those prices certainly aren't falling and likely won't flatline for a few more years until the niche groups of owner/wish list buyers start passing away. And it's getting closer every year. That group is who are buying up GI 1911's from the CMP right now, in 20 years they will be diminishing and a lot of those will pop up on the market. When that happens you generally don't see prices fall much - certainly not the 50% or more Mauser Broomhandles lost when the Chinese brooms hit the market by the thousands. It takes a huge volume to really kill the value.

If Korea had M1's or Carbines by the conex load in better grades and up, I think the market would absorb it. Long term, gun prices aren't suffering now, no indication they would in the future. Considering sword and saber prices have held well - yet they are considered practically useless for defense now, nobody carries an 18" hanger they way it was common in 1776 - yet one in decent shape won't be cheap. As long as the kids didn't go sword banging with it.

Plenty of evidence gun values will hold. Ammo has its peculiar issues right now, but it's improving, and building an ammo fort next year isn't an impossibility.

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Specifically , for me, it's the frustration that I can't learn my new discipline because I can't find the means to do so.

Tirod said:

Not all of us are collectors. Selling a primary defense weapon or hunting rifle isn't a hobby so much as a tool. I may have sold off a few dozen knives, certainly a lot of surplus military equipment, and old collector tools are piling up to price for the flea market booth.

But not the actual guns. I have in the past, and may in the future with one or two that are largely unused - that cash value can go toward other more "needed' items. As for ammo availability, its not as bad as it looks. There is a factor we are unaware of - millions of new gun owners in the last few years. The ownership of firearms is reflected in the nearly month by month record NICS reports, and the ammo makers aren't ignoring the fact that the baseline numbers of shooters is increasing. That is a foundation in calculating consumption, which then goes to production.

All the ammo makers are running as hard as they safely can making more than ever to satisfy demand. It's really not hoarding so much as the significant number of new owners. While gun prices haven't gone up, the shelves are pretty bare and we still see some scalping for the more popular models. However the dealers and retail chains who normally stock are still getting their prorated share of product and the chains aren't all jumping up prices. I got a new carry pistol from one and it was their normal pricing - even tho they are usually sold out and remain so with many models.

What started as another ammo panic morphed into a new gun buying spree among new shooters. While older guns were snapped up along with them, those aren't being made and their popularity and rarity will still slowly inflate prices as the new shooters discover their "bones" and realize some of the significant models out there which are nice to have. Not necessarily primary defense or hunting - but "I have one and you don't" brag items.

Yeah, I'm a bit cynical about collecting knowing the real history of pre 63 Winchesters and Singer 1911's. Regardless of my opinion, those prices certainly aren't falling and likely won't flatline for a few more years until the niche groups of owner/wish list buyers start passing away. And it's getting closer every year. That group is who are buying up GI 1911's from the CMP right now, in 20 years they will be diminishing and a lot of those will pop up on the market. When that happens you generally don't see prices fall much - certainly not the 50% or more Mauser Broomhandles lost when the Chinese brooms hit the market by the thousands. It takes a huge volume to really kill the value.

If Korea had M1's or Carbines by the conex load in better grades and up, I think the market would absorb it. Long term, gun prices aren't suffering now, no indication they would in the future. Considering sword and saber prices have held well - yet they are considered practically useless for defense now, nobody carries an 18" hanger they way it was common in 1776 - yet one in decent shape won't be cheap. As long as the kids didn't go sword banging with it.

Plenty of evidence gun values will hold. Ammo has its peculiar issues right now, but it's improving, and building an ammo fort next year isn't an impossibility.

Click to expand...

In my eyes, there's no value in something I can't use. What's the point of having my great grandad's rifle if I can't get ammo for it? The point of my sks if I can't afford the munitions? I can keep the sentimental stuff, but then it becomes a paperweight. I take pride in what little arms I have. They're not pretty, they're mostly surplus and cheap arms , but each and every single one of them functions. I have some ammo, I can shoot them, I can USE them. If I can't find ammo, it becomes frustrating because I want to USE them, not collect dust with them.

Many good points on this thread, I think each one has a piece of the current “shortage pie” facing us; millions of new gun owners buying some ammo for their new gun(s), millions of current gun owners buying when they can find, others as much as they can find when they can find it, scalpers buying low and trying to sell high, etc.

Add in Uncle Joe’s “free money windfall” and the pain of $1 a shot isn’t as much as it would be without the extra $$. Less pain can easily equal more ammo purchases.

I hope stuff returns to pre madness availability, but until then I’m still trying to add to my stash of firearms and getting out to shoot when I can.

Stay safe.

No way, “Jose”.

I was fortunate to have the opportunities
- in person- to buy a number of my guns.

Most of them are no longer imported (some AKM types) or manufactured (ie the S&W 908 and Sauer 38H).
The decision was made several years ago to follow wise advice about storing plenty of ammo for future panics.

I hope that you guys’ gun sales go well.

I’m a gun addict, I can’t stop.

I’m fascinated with tools and machines, so guns fit those slots as well.

I’ll keep buying.

bassjam said:

So he and his 3 son in laws each bought their first guns and took the CCW course. He bought his 50 round box of ammo and that was it, he said he doesn't really enjoy shooting .

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Jeez, that makes my skin crawl. Another “Good Guy With a Gun” that has absolutely no idea how to use it and no interest in learning how to use it. I sure hope I’m not standing next to him when something goes south at our local Walmart.

Well I figure it this way. Will ammunition and reloading supplies come down in price? They might but I seriously doubt prices will ever return to where they were a few short years ago. With that in mind I also doubt a $3.00 stud grade 2x4 will ever be $3.00 again. Everything is facing inflation, even the Dollar Store has nothing for $1.00 anymore. Everything cost more and not just ammunition. So the options are simple, leave the shooting sports or accept the new normal. Me? I am not about to give up things I really like and at my age I figure I'll be dead before I stop shooting or for that matter enjoying the things I like in life.

Ron

I found an Albanian SKS last week for $800. An SKS has been something on my mind from time to time lately and I told myself if I happened to stumble upon one I'd probably buy it, but to find one in great shape and the rarity of the Albanian, something like only 20k made or possibly only 20k imported.

Anyway, I would have been all over it if it hadn't been for the latest move by the current administration and choking off the Russian stock.... A shame, the SKS isn't likely to be the last thing I'll have to pass on due to the status quo and uncertainty of the future, etc....

gobsauce said:

I completely see where you're coming from. I got into guns November 2019, and since then I've seriously thought about just selling my things and finding another hobby, because of the current climate.

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I say go for it. You are obviously not committed and should get out now, leaving those of us who are to continue with our lives despite the obstacles...