UrbanHermit
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Many firearms and cartridges function just fine with the types of suppressors you can easily make yourself. Bolt actions and 22s don't need anything fancy.
Have suppressor laws changed recently?
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UrbanHermit
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I've never had a suppressor, but I've done a fair amount of research on them, and I believe that in most instances they ARE hearing safe. It's only when they're used dry with high pressure rounds on short barrels that they fail to get below 140 decibels. A cheap, small suppressor used dry with 5.56NATO on an AR pistol will probably still be very loud. The same suppressor on a .223 with a 22" barrel will probably be more than quiet enough.
If a weapon isn't hearing safe suppressed, it's probably not hearing safe with ear plugs either. I wouldn't even own such a thing.
Double Naught Spy
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Actually, this is really poor logic. You mentioned the 140 db threshold. Say your suppressor gets you down to 145 db, definitely not hearing safe. Your plugs given you 25 db nrr. You are now down to 120 db at the ear drum and well within what would be deemed hearing safe.
UrbanHermit
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A weapon that requires both a suppressor and earpro to be safe to shoot doesn't sound very practical to me. Alot of these issues can be avoided by just not trying to cram bottleneck rifle rounds into short barrels. Lots of guns floating around these days that just seem like abominations and serious safety hazards to me. AR pistols, 16" barrel 308s, and the like. Almost as bad as the 357 snubs from the old days. People don't understand that you just can't do that. It's like they can't grasp the fact that they might have to use these weapons without earpro in an emergency some day, and that hearing loss and tinnitus can be almost as serious as whatever the bad guy had in store for you. You need to consider the decibels of a firearm just as much as the accuracy, capacity, terminal performance, or any other feature of it, unless you are not planning on actually using it.
dogtown tom
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Silencers don't make a firearm "hearing safe".........but hearing SAFER. I dont know any silencer manufacturer that makes that claim. And I don't think any firearm manufacturers make that claim either.
Hearing damage can occur with one very loud instance or many instances of "thats not so loud".
As far as practicality? Millions disagree.
Using a silencer isn't just to make the firearm quieter at the shooters ear, but has other benefits such as disguising the source downrange, flash suppression and mitigating what noise does affect the shooter.
UrbanHermit
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The commonly accepted level of high risk of instant hearing damage is 140 decibels, which is slightly more than a .22 from a rifle, corroborating the anecdotal consensus, and my experience, that 22 rifles are not painful at all to shoot without earpro and are probably not dangerous. Most suppressor sound data that I've seen shows suppressors reducing the decibels of most conventional cartridges and barrel lengths below 140 DB. Most people seem to buy them primarily for hearing protection. That's all I know.
Double Naught Spy
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Well, at least you have it all figured out for a person who doesn't own a suppressor and who it waiting for some sort of societal collapse before getting one, LOL.
UrbanHermit
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I do my homework.
Shanvanvocht
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While a single exposure to impulse below 140 dBA "may" not lead to permanent hearing loss, repeated exposure to levels much lower will. Thus the ANSI recommended threshold for hearing protection is 85 dBA and OSHA requires employers to provide hearing protection AND annual audiology exams for employees whose 8-hour weighted average exposure exceeds that level.
And who goes out with a .22 and only fires one shot?
UrbanHermit
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Hunters do. I do.
85 db is for continuous noise, like fans and engines. A gunshot only lasts for milliseconds. Taking a couple shots at game, or an extemporaneous training session in the woods with one magazine and a stump where you are stopping and studying your groups after every 2-3 shot string is not the same as being exposed to the same decibels continuously for hours on end at a job site.
I basically never go through more than one magazine in a shooting session anymore, usually less, and always outdoors. I go for quality training rather than quantity. Saves on ammo too. I find that I learn far more from shooting small game animals than pieces of paper as well.
Soonerpesek
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I have 3, and 4 more in jail soon to be paroled.
I don't hunt, and shoot only at the range.
Every firearm I own that will accept a suppressor, I can shoot repeatedly without earpro with no concern of my hearing safety.
I am not trying to justify anything, just stating what I think.....
I don't hunt, and shoot only at the range.
Every firearm I own that will accept a suppressor, I can shoot repeatedly without earpro with no concern of my hearing safety.
I am not trying to justify anything, just stating what I think.....
MachIVshooter
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There are many species of cans and many variables. Some are designed to "take the edge off", some are legitimately quiet. I have an integral 7mm-08 that sounds like a Brad nailer. The loudest sound with the integral .22 is the firing pin and bullet impact. My 7.5" AR with a 5" can? Much louder. But it won't blow your ears out like an unsuppressed 5.56 SBR will
Suppressed subsonic .32-20 is one that just makes people giggle
A suppressor is something you have to try, in order to appreciate the benefits. The key is:
1) Using a suitable firearm and ammunition combination
2) Using it at a range or at a time when there are no other shooters firing unsupressed near you
Even at our busy London range I have managed to achieve that, at least some of the time. If I can't, I use muffs.
1) Using a suitable firearm and ammunition combination
2) Using it at a range or at a time when there are no other shooters firing unsupressed near you
Even at our busy London range I have managed to achieve that, at least some of the time. If I can't, I use muffs.
It's too easy to over analyze suppressors to the point of inaction. I recommend you dive in and try it. Start with an inexpensive 22LR suppressor or go whole hog and buy an integrally suppressed 22LR pistol.
In 2010, I moved to Missouri with the plan of buying at least 3 suppressors. It took me 10 years to finally pull the trigger on 2 of them. At the time I 1st started looking, it seemed trusts were the way to go. Back then that required getting a lawyer involved, who was familiar with gun trusts. In Missouri, the Lawyer who helped draft our law on suppressors was the go to guy for gun trusts. Problem was he wanted $500 to set up a trust.
It was easier for me to not buy a suppressor than to deal will the trust, finger prints, filling out & processing the paperwork on the suppressor ($200 tax stamp), and figuring out which suppressor I wanted.
In 2020 I finally pulled the trigger on 2 suppressors. Instead of spending hours and hours on more futile research, I asked the shop owners what they recommended and bought 2 from them. I wanted 1 for 9mm and 1 for 308 and below. The shop I used has the Silencer Shop Kiosk. The paperwork was simple on that Kiosk. The Kiosk even takes your finger prints.
Working overseas as a contractor for the DOD, my Fingerprints and DNA are already in "the system." The fingerprint reader on the Kiosk gives you ratings on your fingerprints. I got good ratings on my 50% of my fingerprints. The others were rated bad (or poor or some such) but I said screw and submitted them as is. I did my paperwork as an individual. It was a simple easy process.
It took almost a full year to get my stamps approved.
Hindsight being 20/20, buying suppressors from a shop that has an indoor range probably would've been better. Most shops that have a range will let you visit (shoot) your suppressors on their range while you wait for your approval. A year is a long time to wait and I probably should've bought another 22LR suppressor while I waited for the 1st two. Oh well.
In 2010, I moved to Missouri with the plan of buying at least 3 suppressors. It took me 10 years to finally pull the trigger on 2 of them. At the time I 1st started looking, it seemed trusts were the way to go. Back then that required getting a lawyer involved, who was familiar with gun trusts. In Missouri, the Lawyer who helped draft our law on suppressors was the go to guy for gun trusts. Problem was he wanted $500 to set up a trust.
It was easier for me to not buy a suppressor than to deal will the trust, finger prints, filling out & processing the paperwork on the suppressor ($200 tax stamp), and figuring out which suppressor I wanted.
In 2020 I finally pulled the trigger on 2 suppressors. Instead of spending hours and hours on more futile research, I asked the shop owners what they recommended and bought 2 from them. I wanted 1 for 9mm and 1 for 308 and below. The shop I used has the Silencer Shop Kiosk. The paperwork was simple on that Kiosk. The Kiosk even takes your finger prints.
Working overseas as a contractor for the DOD, my Fingerprints and DNA are already in "the system." The fingerprint reader on the Kiosk gives you ratings on your fingerprints. I got good ratings on my 50% of my fingerprints. The others were rated bad (or poor or some such) but I said screw and submitted them as is. I did my paperwork as an individual. It was a simple easy process.
It took almost a full year to get my stamps approved.
Hindsight being 20/20, buying suppressors from a shop that has an indoor range probably would've been better. Most shops that have a range will let you visit (shoot) your suppressors on their range while you wait for your approval. A year is a long time to wait and I probably should've bought another 22LR suppressor while I waited for the 1st two. Oh well.
A good pair of ear muffs or ear plugs are a lot cheaper than the price of the suppressor & $200 tax stamp. So for me a suppressor is just a status symbol that I don't need.
Double Naught Spy
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That is true. As my suppressor lives on my rifle, I have never been surprised by blowing out my ear drums accidentally as has happened on several occasions over the years when I have forgotten to put on ear muffs (before I owned a suppressor). That is something that happens to every shooter who wears muffs or plugs. They forget them from time to time.
As I said above, a suppressor is just another piece of safety equipment. It is money well spent to help protect my hearing. The funny and insidious thing about hearing loss is that people usually don't understand what they are losing as they lose it and can't comprehend the loss until it is too late.
MachIVshooter
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A good pair of earmuffs or plugs does nothing for the people not wearing them, or to keep noise down in settled areas where it's legal to shoot until you piss off the neighbors. We have acreage, but the houses are still close enough that regular shooting of any decent quantity without a can is going to result in complaints. With suppressors, I can go for as long as I want (or can afford) to, nobody cares.
Most people also don't really want to wear ear pro all day while walking around hunting.
They reduce recoil significantly, get rid of most of the concussion and all or nearly all of the flash, good for both indoor shooting and nighttime use like predator hunting. Also great for new shooters, allows them to focus on the fundamentals without being startled & distracted by the noise & flash. And being able to teach with rimfires without needing ear pro allows for normal conversation volume, and makes elevated volume much more effective when you have to yell a cease fire or something else about a safety issue.
They're only referred to as a "status symbol" by people trying to justify not buying one. Those of us who own and use them view them as a tool, a piece of safety equipment. Machine guns are the NFA item often bought as your status symbol by wealthier shooters, but that's not universal either. Suppressors or SBRs are inexpensive and common enough that they're generally not viewed as anything special.
If you're ever in the Denver area, feel free to come buy and try a few out. I promise we can change your mind with a demo of any of the 18 models we manufacture. We don't even charge for ammo to try them out.
Thousands of shooting a year, and somehow the police manage to conduct oral interviews of those involved. I'm sure hearing loss when defending your home is a thing, just not The Thing. Same myth as "they'll take your gun away after a defensive shooting," and "anything on your gun that's not OEM will get you convicted in court." Show me the facts.
Soonerpesek
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Elkins45
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There are a couple of factors that have lead to the increase I didn’t see when I (briefly) scanned the replies. One is the convenience of filing an eForm 1 online. The other is the existence of really nice silencer kits that only require a drill press to complete. I built a super 22LR can for just a little over $300 tax included. A few years ago there weren’t companies like Quietbore or XRT Tactical selling quality machined parts kits the average person could complete without access to a lathe.
I can step out onto my deck and shoot 100 rounds any time I want without the neighbors ever noticing. That has a value to me that exceeds my $300 one-time investment.
I can step out onto my deck and shoot 100 rounds any time I want without the neighbors ever noticing. That has a value to me that exceeds my $300 one-time investment.
MachIVshooter
Member
You do recognize that hearing loss has infinite levels between "not quite perfect" and "stone deaf", right? On that note, it is entirely possible to blow your eardrums with one shot.
My wife has significant damage in her right ear because the recoil of an unsuppressed AR-50 knocked her muffs off, giving her a full dose of .50 BMG exhaust through a rearward angled muzzle brake.
Hearing loss is cumulative, progressive and irreparable. And tinnitus sucks. I wish I had been better educated about it as a kid, I wouldn't have waited until my thirties to start wearing ear plugs in the shop, while mowing the yard, etc.
Where firearms are concerned, the NRR of plugs or muffs by themselves is generally not enough with centerfire rifles, especially shorter barreled ones and/or those sporting muzzle brakes. You need to use both. Or you can run a suppressor and just one or the other to net a similar 50-60 dB reduction that does make it truly safe. Moreover, if you do happen to fire a round without the ears, the 130-150 dBA suppressed report is A LOT less damaging than 160-170+ of an unsuppressed centerfire rifle.
UrbanHermit
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I pass up walking shots at game all the time because I don't have enough time to put earplugs in before they escape.
dogtown tom
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Does your target wear earplugs?
Come to Texas, hunt feral hogs, learn why 30 round mags and a silencer are useful.
Same goes for prarie dogs, squirrels, rabbits, coyotes, etc...........they don't spook.
Practice shooting moving things. All but one of the deer I've shot were moving some at a dead run. Most I've made prefect double lung/heart shots. They do make ear plugs for hunting that allow you to hear game but block the sound of the shot.
MachIVshooter
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When someone says "escape", I take that to mean disappeared into the woods or around a hill, not "started running". Unless you hunt with hand grenades or a howitzer, you need to be able to see the animal to shoot it.
If you're not interested in suppressors, that's your prerogative, but don't espouse erroneous beliefs or be disingenuous about the benefits or efficacy, tell other people they're not worth it. They may not be worth it to you, but (obviously) are to millions upon millions of other shooters around the world. I suspect if you actually tried using some decent ones, you'd have a change of heart. Most people do.
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