Uberti Cattleman fixed sights - shooting high

Lighter bullets should shoot lower, but you'll have to try them to be sure.

Stefan A said:

so I am wondering if you have found significant elevation differences with different weights.

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Oh, yeah! I've been amazed several times by the elevation differences between different weight bullets from revolvers. However, I know you're right - with the lack of available components, it's difficult to do a lot of experimenting these days.
If you could just find some 200 to 230 grain bullets for your .45 Colt (and kick them out at a medium-high) velocity) I think you'll find they shoot quite a bit lower than your 250 grain bullets do at 10-20 yards. The only problem I'd have with that is, I really like 250 grain cast bullets in my own .45 Colt revolver. I'm lucky though - my .45 Colt revolver is a Ruger Blackhawk with an adjustable rear sight. BTW, I always hold at "6 o'clock" on the bullseye when I'm trying to be "precise" with a revolver - or any handgun for that matter.

Where does it print at 25 yards ?
What velocity "factory" load are you shooting ?

The easy answer is yur too close.
One adjustment I know I had to make shooting fixed sight revolvers was my sight picture. I was told they want the target sitting on top of the blade, not cutting the target with the blade.
I probably just exposed how much of a
Novice I am.

Where's the very tippy-top of
the front sight in relation to
the V- or U-notch rear sight?

I would try to make the adjustment in your hold to 6 o clock. I personally use the center mass hold, but if I had a fixed sight revolver shooting high I would definitely adjust my hold. At least until ammo/component availability improves so I could dial in a load.

I guess you're not a reloader, but lighter bullets (less muzzle rise) at higher velocity (less barrel time) should shoot lower.

Stefan A said:

So far I have shot 60 rounds through my used Uberti Cattleman .45 colt. All shots are high. Targets 10-20 yards away it's 4-5" high. Windage is great. I have read that I could get the front sight built up, but I am wondering if ammo choice make a big difference in this. I am shooting 250g bullets - factory. As you know, it's pretty difficult these days to do a lot of experimenting, so I am wondering if you have found significant elevation differences with different weights. In the mean time, I just estimate.

Stefan

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Back up to 25 yards.

I missed the part about it being used. Maybe the previous owner filed the front site on purpose for a 6 o clock hold?

A Six O' Clock hold is standard for handguns. Most fixed sight revolvers are regulated to a standard bullet weight/velocity for the caliber, ammo. I'd try some other ammo before I started to mess with the front sight.

My Uberti El Patron shoots fine with 200 gr lead and 6 o'clock hold. Using mid level cowboy load of 5.5 Trailboss. In a match though I shoot 45 Cowboy Special with 160 grain, using 45 Colt in my rifle.

Stefan A said:

So far I have shot 60 rounds through my used Uberti Cattleman .45 colt. All shots are high. Targets 10-20 yards away it's 4-5" high. Windage is great. I have read that I could get the front sight built up, but I am wondering if ammo choice make a big difference in this. I am shooting 250g bullets - factory. As you know, it's pretty difficult these days to do a lot of experimenting, so I am wondering if you have found significant elevation differences with different weights. In the mean time, I just estimate.

Stefan

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I think I missed it or maybe never said but, are you a hand-loader or are you only going to use factory ammo?

If you're only going to use boxed shelf ammo, then your best bet is probably to decide on a brand and style - something stable that's been around for a long time and will be around a long time - and have the front sight built up until it's hitting LOW at your preferred range, then file it down to zero for you. Buy lots of that ammo!

If you're a hand-loader, find a powder/bullet combo that hits where you need it. You can make more and tweak the recipe as needed - for example, you can use ".45ACP" bullets just fine in most Ubertis without any problem - some of mine were actually more accurate with .451" Nosler 185gr. JHP than they were with .452" 200gr. LSWC. It depends on the gun and how Luigi was feeling that day.

Sight work isn't that hard but the one thing you might want to avoid is deepening the trough on the rear sight. Been there, done that, didn't turn out well.

GeoDudeFlorida said:

Sight work isn't that hard but the one thing you might want to avoid is deepening the trough on the rear sight. Been there, done that, didn't turn out well.

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Since the top of the front sight is generally held even with the top of the rear sight, deepening the trough would do little if anything, for changing POA/POI. It would be the "ears" of the trough/rear sight that would have to be lowered. "Kentucky Windage" could make for the shooter to hold the front sight lower than the top of the "ears" to adjust for POI. Something that was common back when I was a kid. "Hold that bead as deep as you can get it!" my Grandpa used to tell me about shooting his old .32 Special.

Howdy

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. I have no idea exactly where my Black Powder, 250 grain, 45 Colt loads print.

Way back about 20 years ago I did go to the range and shoot up some targets with my 250 grain Smokeless loads. I even filed down the front sight on one of my Ruger Vaqueros at that time so the bullets would impact the at the point of aim. That Ruger is the only revolver I have ever filed down the sights on, and I have lots of single action revolvers.

I really don't care exactly where my Black Powder loads are hitting because I only use them for CAS. I simply aim at the center of the target and pull the trigger. If I don't jerk the pistol, they hit the target and that's all I care about. Way too much trouble to go to the range and shoot up some targets with my BP loads, just to find out exactly where they are printing. Plus, I don't want to 'waste' any of my cartridges, they take too much time and trouble to make, so they are all reserved for matches. Did I mention that I don't much like cleaning my guns after they have been fired with Black Powder? Another reason I don't go to the range and 'sight in' my Colts.








I can tell you that all Smith and Wesson Top Breaks, such as this New Model Number Three, tend to shoot high because the front sights are so low. I always have to remember to hold low on the target or I may shoot right over it.






So my advice to you is don't change a thing.

Figure out where your loads are hitting, then compensate by holding low.

buck460XVR said:

Since the top of the front sight is generally held even with the top of the rear sight, deepening the trough would do little if anything, for changing POA/POI.

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I agree. Deepening the slot will not accomplish anything if you are holding the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear sights.

Driftwood Johnson said:

I agree. Deepening the slot will not accomplish anything if you are holding the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear sights.

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Like I said, didn't turn out well. This was with a .32-20 Smith & Wesson that was shooting over a pie plate at 30 feet with the bottom of the plate touching the front blade and the front sight buried in the trough. Instead of doing the smart thing and building up the front sight, I did the lazy thing and made the trough deeper. Not good. Moral of the story: Don't do what I did. Do it the right way and build up the front sight. It's not that hard. Or just learn to point-shoot and limit your range.

BTW: this isn't something I did yesterday, it was going on 40 years ago, maybe more.

Shure Hit brass front sights are used by a lot of cowboy action competitors. They are a pre- folded brass sleeve that slips over the existing front sight blade, secured by super glue type adhesive. After I realized I had filed off too much of my front sights, I used Shure Hits to regain height. They will also make the front sight wider which may be an issue for you. That is one of the reasons geezer shooters install them, to make the sight easier to see. Heat them up to weaken the adhesive if you want to remove them. Quick and easy on and off. An option to consider.

I filled the gap between the top of the blade and the brass sleeve with JB Weld, but that is not necessary.

http://www.longhunt.com/storelh/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=271

@Stefan A
I agree with leaving the gun alone and adjusting your aim until you can experiment with different loads.

I have an S&W model 10 .38 Special that hits high with my 158 grain loads and my 148 grain wadcutter loads but dead on with 125 grain factory ammo. I just adjust my aim accordingly. I don’t shoot the gun in competitions and it’s not a defensive gun, even though it could be. It’s just a gun that I love to shoot.

Also keep in mind that faster ammo hits lower than slower ammo. If the .45 Colt ammo you are shooting is slow it may print higher. Now, the increase in velocity for a 255 grain bullet to hit lower with your gun may not be fun to shoot and may even be over pressure so when you hand load follow your reloading manuals instructions. Notice I said “manuals”? Always use 2 or 3 points of reference when developing loads.
I apologize if I am making presumptions about your reloading experience and telling you things that you already know.

Have fun with your revolver. I wouldn’t let the sight issue eat at me. Just aim accordingly and have fun.