Last Powder for a While

JCooperfan1911 said:

I managed to grab 10 lbs of Graf and Sons 3Fg black powder from the Graf’s website a few days ago when they restocked their inventory. It arrived today:

View attachment 1030314

Now all black powder is out of stock everywhere, and there is a tremendous run on it and an upcoming shortage due to the closure of the United States based Goex powder factory. Glad I was able to get what I could. It should hold me over long enough for things to stabilize. Take care.

-J.C.F.

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You trumped my hand...I only got 7lbs

Good for you, JCF! It's only gonna get worse.

Feels good to have a supply. Since the Goex news came out I occasionally walk out to the shop to check on mine. Gives me the warm fuzzies, at least until the fire marshal finds out.

I have to agree with you .38 Special...It is a warm and fuzzies feeling to check on the powder...My hat's off to you JCooperfan1911 Your photo kinda gives me that same feelin' too Looks like Christmas time don't it? .

Better to have it and not need it... Well, ya'll know the rest.

Does anyone know the whole story as to why? I mean it seems crazy to shut down a powder factory now of all times with a huge demand and shortage.

It had blown up...and I think Hogdon decided to sell instead of rebuild. Given the civil and military markets, I expect that the plant will be bought and reopened.

Mike OTDP said:

It had blown up...and I think Hogdon decided to sell instead of rebuild. Given the civil and military markets, I expect that the plant will be bought and reopened.

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Was is back in July that that they had the explosion MikeOTDP? Seems like it may have been this year.

From multiple posts on several websites/forums the GOEX plant did not 'blow up'. There was a fire in one section the halted or slowed production for a while. And again, from multiple sources that should know, there is no military market for black powder in the 21st Century. That ended with the retirement of the Missouri Class battleships and their 16" guns.

From what I've come to understand this was simply a cold, calculated business decision on the part of Hodgdon. It is more cost efficient, with less liability, to make Pyrodex and Triple 7. And black powder competed with that more profitable product line.

Dave

Dave T said:

From multiple posts on several websites/forums the GOEX plant did not 'blow up'. There was a fire in one section the halted or slowed production for a while. And again, from multiple sources that should know, there is no military market for black powder in the 21st Century. That ended with the retirement of the Missouri Class battleships and their 16" guns.

From what I've come to understand this was simply a cold, calculated business decision on the part of Hodgdon. It is more cost efficient, with less liability, to make Pyrodex and Triple 7. And black powder competed with that more profitable product line.

Dave[/QUOTE
DaveT. Thank you for the clarification

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Zulch said:

Was is back in July that that they had the explosion MikeOTDP? Seems like it may have been this year.

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I believe so.

Dave T said:

And again, from multiple sources that should know, there is no military market for black powder in the 21st Century. That ended with the retirement of the Missouri Class battleships and their 16" guns.

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You'd be surprised. I'm told it's still in use in artillery shell fusing...and I know damned well it's used in ejection seats. Particularly the parachute systems.

Got the same box and same amount a few days ago myself.

I’m hoping to barter a bit of it for some 2F but it won’t be a huge deal if I don’t.

Dave T said:

From multiple posts on several websites/forums the GOEX plant did not 'blow up'. There was a fire in one section the halted or slowed production for a while. And again, from multiple sources that should know, there is no military market for black powder in the 21st Century. That ended with the retirement of the Missouri Class battleships and their 16" guns.

From what I've come to understand this was simply a cold, calculated business decision on the part of Hodgdon. It is more cost efficient, with less liability, to make Pyrodex and Triple 7. And black powder competed with that more profitable product line.

Dave

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THIS^^ is more of what I'm inclined to believe. Hodgdon couldn't care less about us soot lords and would rather hope they can peddle more of their junky BP subs. I'd be willing to bet they hope it does not open back up.

Personally I'm of the mind if I could boycott all Hodgdon products I would but sadly they are doing with the powder industry like a lot of other big corps do in their respected areas and buy up all of the competition and then adjust the market to suit themselves and their profits.

JCooperfan1911 said:

I managed to grab 10 lbs of Graf and Sons 3Fg black powder from the Graf’s website a few days ago when they restocked their inventory. It arrived today:

View attachment 1030314

Now all black powder is out of stock everywhere, and there is a tremendous run on it and an upcoming shortage due to the closure of the United States based Goex powder factory. Glad I was able to get what I could. It should hold me over long enough for things to stabilize. Take care.

-J.C.F.

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Nice. I don't think I will be able to shoot what I have, so I am giving away a pound to a friend. I did a buy on quantity, (my definition), when the fed bribe money came out. But If I had all the BP firearms I wish I had, I'd have been stocking up much harder, myself.

I didn't mind supporting Hodgdon for the simple fact that they maintained GOEX and with the addition of OLD EYENSFORD not only gave swiss a run for their money but was better in many ways.
Now with the Goex closing id be more inclined to boycott them but they have the market strangled in such a way all my powders smokeless included ALL come from Hodgdon with the exception of red dot

I could get by on Alliant powders only…..if availability of components was wide open….which it never has been.

Which brings me to an observation I have noticed through the years but only recently really became aware of. Even in good times, reloading components are hard to find if you are looking for something specific. If I wanted a Winchester case, Federal GM SR primer, Barnes TSX bullet and H110 powder for a 450 Bushmaster load, (which is a favorite combination of mine) I may have only been able to find the powder between all the major online outfits. This was in 2017.

Basically, this is to continue beating the dead horse of when you find a component that you like and use, buy as many as you can justify, be it financially or practically, right then.

earlthegoat2 said:

I could get by on Alliant powders only…..if availability of components was wide open….which it never has been.

Which brings me to an observation I have noticed through the years but only recently really became aware of. Even in good times, reloading components are hard to find if you are looking for something specific. If I wanted a Winchester case, Federal GM SR primer, Barnes TSX bullet and H110 powder for a 450 Bushmaster load, (which is a favorite combination of mine) I may have only been able to find the powder between all the major online outfits. This was in 2017.

Basically, this is to continue beating the dead horse of when you find a component that you like and use, buy as many as you can justify, be it financially or practically, right then.

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This has largely been my experience as well, save perhaps for a period of about a year or 18 months in the middle of the previous administration. My response has been two fold: first, when something I particularly like shows up I bought as much as was practicable. Primers in particular, but specialty powders like Varget, specific bullets like the partitions I use for elk, etc. The other approach I have taken is a deliberate effort toward self sufficiency/flexibility. Stuff like casting, reloading, and having stuff that is jack of all trades. I always try to stock plenty of unique because in a pinch I can make a useful load for anything from 9MM to 30-06 to 12 gauge.

As for black powder, I think we all need to be flexible. If you are shooting a flinter, obviously there is no substitute and I hope you stocked up. For the rest, if it isn't a critical application where making a precise shot that requires some flavor of real black (hunting, competition), use what you can get. I don't much like pyrodex, but if push came to shove and that is all i can find, that is what i would use in a cap and ball, for example.

Dave T said:

. . From what I've come to understand this was simply a cold, calculated business decision on the part of Hodgdon. . .

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That's the sad part
A whole lot of different kinds of businesses
in America were founded by enthusiasts
of different things, and were fortunate
enough to be able to start a company and
make a good living for themselves and
their employees doing what they love.
Then you have the business school
management types come in and talk of
"efficiency ", and "consolidating " and
" streamlining " and " downsizing " and
such, when their first concern should be
their hard earned customer base ( which
they usually know nothing about)
I've seen a lot of it in every industry,
automotive, food service, medical, etc.

Probably the main reason everything we
use comes from overseas now

earlthegoat2 said:

I could get by on Alliant powders only…..if availability of components was wide open….which it never has been.

Which brings me to an observation I have noticed through the years but only recently really became aware of. Even in good times, reloading components are hard to find if you are looking for something specific. If I wanted a Winchester case, Federal GM SR primer, Barnes TSX bullet and H110 powder for a 450 Bushmaster load, (which is a favorite combination of mine) I may have only been able to find the powder between all the major online outfits. This was in 2017.

Basically, this is to continue beating the dead horse of when you find a component that you like and use, buy as many as you can justify, be it financially or practically, right then.

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Does Hodgdon not still distribute Alliant powders?

It was my understanding they started that a couple years ago. I believe they also distribute Vihtavuori powders which I was wanting to start using more in precision long range smokeless cartridges but it seems no matter what brand of powder you go with you are supporting Hodgdon to some degree. They seem to have the market cornered and their hands in the pot everywhere.

As Hodgdon has acquired more and more of the powder business I have had concerns for some time this day would come.

Also when it comes to black powder you can't just buy all you can afford, unless you have some special magazine built it's not safe to store cases of the stuff and in many places it would be illegal to have that much without some special license and storage facility. That's why you can't buy in locally in very many places anymore.

Hodgdon does own Alliant. Also Winchester and IMR powders, as well as Ramshot, Accurate and Blackhorn.

Not sure why anyone would want to "boycot" Hodgdon? They were probably only barely breaking even on GOEX, and with the recent number of fires, explosions and such in the last few decades involving BP manufacturing, the liability had to be huge! Not to mention the fact that Hodgdon was, is and always has been a smokeless powder company. The fact that they are offering up the assets to other companies (interested parties rumored to be Shuetzen, among others) who specialize in BP manufacturing and have a far better safety record might be the best news possible for BP shooters. Part of that liability has been passed along to you as a consumer in higher prices. If a company with a much better safety record can resume production it's quite possible their liability insurance may be less than GOEX's was.

I think Shuetzen will buy it. I will fully support whoever takes over GOEX. My main interest is shooting the holy black...
I enjoy the feel, the sound,the history and the power.... There really is nothing like it... I believe all shooters should shoot a full powered 45 colt Bp cartridge at least once in their life...
If old Eyensford or swiss isn't available when I need to re-up, I will try my hand at making my own. The only thing I lack is a press and the picking die... Which when researching making BP looks like a very crucial component to making fast powder.

Captain*kirk said:

Hodgdon does own Alliant. Also Winchester and IMR powders, as well as Ramshot, Accurate and Blackhorn.

Not sure why anyone would want to "boycot" Hodgdon? They were probably only barely breaking even on GOEX, and with the recent number of fires, explosions and such in the last few decades involving BP manufacturing, the liability had to be huge! Not to mention the fact that Hodgdon was, is and always has been a smokeless powder company. The fact that they are offering up the assets to other companies (interested parties rumored to be Shuetzen, among others) who specialize in BP manufacturing and have a far better safety record might be the best news possible for BP shooters. Part of that liability has been passed along to you as a consumer in higher prices. If a company with a much better safety record can resume production it's quite possible their liability insurance may be less than GOEX's was.

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Obviously they were not making much or they wouldn't have closed it if they were wanting to sell. I hope rumors are true but I'm not holding my breath it will be sold and reopened, I stand by my thoughts that Hodgdon couldn't care less if it does because it just benefits their BP subs. My attitude towards Hodgdon regarding BP goes way back to their misadvertising of saying Pyrodex is less corrosive and easier to clean than real BP. Scientific evidence proves its a lie and anyone that shoots real black knows the difference. It's like they have been pushing those over real BP so long and I was amazed they ever bought Goex to begin with and even more amazed it has taken them this long to shut it down.