AR Slam Fires Fact vs Fiction

Have you personally experienced a slam fire with any of these primers?

  • CCI Small Rifle Primers 400

    Votes: 3 2.5%
  • CCI Small Rifle Magnum Primers 450

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Remington 7.5 Small Rifle Primers

    Votes: 2 1.7%
  • Federal 205 Small Rifle Primers

    Votes: 4 3.4%
  • Winchester Small Rifle Primers

    Votes: 4 3.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 3.4%
  • None

    Votes: 110 92.4%

  • Total voters
    119
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No slam fires experienced here, thousands of rounds with AR15's and 1500+ with an AR10 and FAL. I've used fed 205, 205m, CCI 400, 450, 41's in small rifle, and fed 210, 210m's, CCI 200, & #34's in large rifle. I always load from magazine.

Just cuz I've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen though!
 
I have seen slamfires and had them in Garands. The one in an AR15 was in an NRA Across the Course Match during the standing stage. The primers were brass finish WSR. I had the muzzle of the AR15 down, put a round in the chamber, dropped the bolt, and the weapon slamfired a round in front of the firing line. My scorer laughed at me and made some sort of comments about my nickname "Slamfire". Well, when he shot his standing, the absolute first round he loaded standing in his AR15, with Federal Match primers, slamfired a divot out in front of the firing line. Ha, ha.

It used to be that you were allowed to load your rifle on the shooting stool during the standing stage. That was no problem with Garands or M1a's. The muzzle pointed up, you pressed a round into the magazine and tripped the bolt. The fact the bolt lost velocity going up meant I never heard of either of these rifles slamfiring while on the stool.

However, AR15 shooters placed the muzzle of the rifle on the shooting shoot, dropped a round in the chamber, and dropped the bolt. Enough AR15's slamfired through the shooting stool, scattering the contents around, that the NRA banned the practice of loading a rifle on the stool.

A slamfire is not a giggle when it happens to you. It is an out of control event and you count yourself lucky you were not shot, or, shot someone else when the round went off.
 
A slamfire is not a giggle when it happens to you. It is an out of control event. . .
The good news is that I've never heard of the Stoner-design bolt slam-firing out of battery.

(Over to the Gentle Readers if I'm in error)
 
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It’s doubling

My gen-u-wine Colt H-bar, although a 'target' rifle, has, quite honestly, the worst trigger in the safe. Gritty, creepy... it's the worst. Firing it off the bench in particular, with the forearm supported, or off the bipod, it will double a LOT, and it will, occasionally, shooting offhand. I've even gotten kicked off a range because of it. I've never had that problem with any other AR I've ever fired.
 
"Slamfire", by definition is when the bolt slams shut and it fires without touching the trigger. Any semi auto that uses a floating firing pin is capable of it in the right situation. That "dent" is a sign of a floating firing pin, and if its more than a slight dimple, you do have something to worry about. #1 is make sure your primers are set below flush with the case head....and if it's still making dimples, use a military primer with a tougher shell.....maybe see if your gunsmith can improve things.

My Remington doesn't make dimples if they are properly below flush.....it slamfires if primers are proud....so I've learned to check every round since the brass sliver experience....a slamfire gets your attention. Obviously, in my example above, the first round was safe. The auto load was "in battery" but it went off. If it had been out of battery there would have been damage....to me and/or to the rifle. If your rifle is in good shape, I don't think out of battery can happen, unless the ammo won't chamber....too long, too fat, shoulder too long.

I am thankful that my one experience, being only the third round in the magazine, I was still aiming at the target....in effect a normal bang then a two round burst. Only effect was wide eyes on me and my shooting friend.;) If the fourth round was high primered, there could have been a three round burst.
 
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I had a couple of double taps in a Chinese SKS with Russian ammo. When you unload a live round in that rifle. It's scary to see the size of dent it leaves.
 
In many many rounds shot in both AR's and Mini 14's I have never had a slamfire so far. I have used both commercial ammo and reloads. I have used about every primer brand both SR and SRM with the exception of Federal primers. For some reason I never ended up purchasing many Federal primers at all. I prefer CCI first and WIN second if I have a choice otherwise whatever is available and cheapest.
 
The consensus seems to be that slam fires are very rare. Typically a result of an issue in the reloading process or loading rounds directly into the chamber and allowing the full weight and momentum of the bolt to strike the case.

Which leads to my next question. Why are many reloaders ready to bad mouth certain primers when they have not actually experienced the alleged problems? I have seen so many post online and heard so many conversations at the range about it and it seems to be mostly 3rd hand information.
 
Have loaded over 2000 223 rounds using Winchester, CCI, and Federal small rifle primers in four diffrent AR15's that my Son and I shoot. and have yet to have a slam fire in any one of these rifles.
 
The consensus seems to be that slam fires are very rare. Typically a result of an issue in the reloading process or loading rounds directly into the chamber and allowing the full weight and momentum of the bolt to strike the case..

Tavor in battery slamfire with factory Winchester ammunition



Rare yes, dangerous, yes, and they happen.
 
Haven't tried it, but will an AR hammer follow the bolt home when released if the trigger is held back?
 
None here! I’ve always used “standard” small rifle primers mostly REM, CCI, and Federal. Never used the #41? type
I shoot 223 in AR, Mini 14, and Contender.
 
Haven't tried it, but will an AR hammer follow the bolt home when released if the trigger is held back?

No it has a disconnector that retains the hammer while the trigger is held down during the cycling. If its allowed to follow there is a chance it will go full auto and that is not a good plan unless you have the proper paper work. ;)

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Haven't tried it, but will an AR hammer follow the bolt home when released if the trigger is held back?
Should not, but if the sear surfaces are worn, the hammer will follow. That was a common issue early in the NM AR15 experimentation phase. Before the good triggers came out, the first I remember was the Milazzo-Krieger trigger, shooters would stone the issue trigger to a short crisp pull, and the things always failed at some point in the future. Then the shooter would have a double in a rapid fire stage.

That Milazzo Kreiger trigger always in time failed too. You can go to the link, there is a sear engagement adjustment screw, and no matter what thread locking compound you use, the screw gets loose, and then the rifle starts doubling. I much prefer the two stage trigger mechanism that came on my Armalite NM AR15. No adjustments once the trigger is set up. Simple is far better.

I don't really consider mechanical failures as true "slamfire" events, even though the rifle did fire without the shooter pulling the trigger. I prefer to refer to slamfires as events caused by the inertial impact of a firing pin on a sensitive primer. However, broken parts or not, the outcome is the same.

The FN49 has a high number of reports of rifles blown up due to out of battery incidents. Such as

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I always thought these were caused by the inertial impact of a free floating firing pin. You look at a FN49 firing pin, it is big. However, until I purchased a FN49 book, I did not know about the one piece firing pin problems the rifle had. The early versions had a one piece firing pin that would bend or break in the firing pin channel, and with the firing pin sticking out of the bolt face, the affect is identical to an advanced ignition system, such as the STEN. So I don't know if the out of battery incidents are due to broken firing pins or sensitive primers.

I do want to comment on the AR15 design. Yes Stoner designed a bolt where the firing is completely blocked from moving forward until the bolt lugs have rotated into battery. Therefore you would think that an out of battery slamfire is impossible, and I did. Well, never say never. They happen in the things.

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I never took into account bolt bounce and a slight delay to primer ignition. What happens is the bolt lugs rotate close, the firing pin rebounds off the primer, the primer slowly ignites while the carrier bounces back, which unlocks the bolt. And then, an out of battery even happens.

A shooting bud of mine who was a Security Guard at a National Laboratory that has Nuclear materials and shoot on sight zones, told hm he witnessed an out of battery event with a military M4 and Federal Gold Medal match ammunition. These guys get to practice with Federal Gold Medal Match!, Uncle Sam has deep pockets. Anyway, the out of battery slamfire incident with an AR15 mechanism is extremely rare, rarer than inbattery incidents by far, but they happen.

There is one rifle I have not found any slamfire events, and that is the HK91 roller bolt rifle. The firing pin is positively blocked from going forward by the design of the bolt

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the center piece has to push the rollers out into the locking recesses for the firing pin to reach the primer. And the firing pin spring is extremely stiff, I think you could use them as automotive valve springs.

But, of course, never say never. These rifles are not as ubiquitous as AR's, and if they were, maybe I would hear of an inbattery or out of battery slamfire with the HK91


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I never took into account bolt bounce and a slight delay to primer ignition.

I had never even thought about bolt bounce until I saw a slow motion video of an M1 or M1a (I forget which...) where the bolt bounced after going into battery. You would think... with all that forward energy, plus the recoil spring shoving on it, it would stay shut... but mine eyes have seen it! Crazy...
 
My 308 was fine until I screwed a Silencer on it. Now it is slam firing. (Factory Ammo at the moment). Going to see a Gun Smith then start loading hand loads.
Try a good adjustable gas block and a different buffer spring had to do that on my Armalite AR-10 when I went to can
 
Try a good adjustable gas block and a different buffer spring had to do that on my Armalite AR-10 when I went to can
That’s what I plan to do. But going to let the Gun Smith do it. I’m a little cautious when it comes to those things.
Thanks!
 
I had never even thought about bolt bounce until I saw a slow motion video of an M1 or M1a (I forget which...) where the bolt bounced after going into battery. You would think... with all that forward energy, plus the recoil spring shoving on it, it would stay shut... but mine eyes have seen it! Crazy...

I agree. I am going to claim that we should be very skeptical about what we think we know. What we think is knowledge is often not, and it is extremely difficult not to believe the stories in our heads. I thought this was a good read:

We Are All Confident Idiots
Pacific Standard Dec 2014, Confident Idiots – David Dunning
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/confident-idiots-92793/

a useful quote from the article: As the humorist Josh Billing once put it, “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble, its what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”

So exactly as you said, with all that forward energy, plus the recoil spring shoving on it, it would stay shut. is what exactly I thought, and probably what Stoner thought. And yet what I thought was so, because it had to be so, just ain't so.

The right conditions for an out of battery slamfire in the AR mechanism are even less probable than an in battery, but it happens.

Tell you though, out of battery slamfire events in Garands while infrequent are probably orders of magnitude more often than out of battery slamfires with AR's. I have had, and pulled targets with, and talked to numerous people who have had or seen Garand out of battery slamfires. However I have only talked to one person who witnessed an M4 out of battery.
 
Tell you though, out of battery slamfire events in Garands while infrequent are probably orders of magnitude more often than out of battery slamfires with AR's. I have had, and pulled targets with, and talked to numerous people who have had or seen Garand out of battery slamfires.

Do you know of any OOB events directly cause because of a worn safety bridge? I know that is a theory...
 
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