Burned brass and other anomalies

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Stefan A

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I am loading 45 colt with 250g bullets and currently up to 7.5g of n340. I am noticing that the brass is burned on the outside on 1 side. When I fire the gun there seems to be more smoke than I get with my factory rounds. It smells awful. And the kickback seems lighter than I would expect. All of this stuff seems different to me compared to factory loads and even my 9mm reloads. Does any of this mean anything?

Stefan
 
It sounds like your load is not burning very efficiently. Lighter loads of some powders will do that, sometimes. I had that issue with IMR4227... lighter loads absolutely stank, and the amount of crap left in the barrel was telling me it was not burning right. Bumping the load up fixed all of that.

Because standard .45 Colt loads are quite low pressure, you may not be able to get a good burn from that specific powder. Although I'm not familiar with VV powders, N340 is a pretty slow powder, it sounds like you either need to ramp the charge up, if possible (using reliable data, of course,) or switch to a faster powder.
 
It sounds like your load is not burning very efficiently. Lighter loads of some powders will do that, sometimes. I had that issue with IMR4227... lighter loads absolutely stank, and the amount of crap left in the barrel was telling me it was not burning right. Bumping the load up fixed all of that.

Because standard .45 Colt loads are quite low pressure, you may not be able to get a good burn from that specific powder. Although I'm not familiar with VV powders, N340 is a pretty slow powder, it sounds like you either need to ramp the charge up, if possible (using reliable data, of course,) or switch to a faster powder.
Thanks. I still have a little ways to go with this load - up to 8.2g. I also have zip so I may try that later. Thanks.
 
I am also occasionally getting this residue. That shot of the casing is with a full load of 8.3g. i guess I am not supposed to go any further.
 

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Soot (burn?) on outside of the case? Usually from lower pressure loads not sealing the case to chamber. Dirty shooting? Most powders need a specific pressure level to burn consistently and cleanly. Lower recoil? Low pressure/velocity loads. These can be remedied with a heavier charge and/or a faster powder (I don't have any VV data but is sounds like 8.3 gr is listed max., and I wouldn't go there. I'd work up from your present load, slowly and watch for cleaner shooting but stay below max)...
 
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I am noticing that the brass is burned on the outside on 1 side. When I fire the gun there seems to be more smoke than I get with my factory rounds. It smells awful. And the kickback seems lighter than I would expect. All of this stuff seems different to me compared to factory loads and even my 9mm reloads. Does any of this mean anything?

I think it means your to far under minimum load and your ammo isn't burning clean.
According to my reloading AP, 9.2 is the starting charge and 9.8 is maximum for N 340 with a 250 gr bullet in 45 Colt.
https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/?cartridge=53 And VV confirms that.
The reason your powder is burning poorly is because you are to far below minimum load.
The unburnt flakes in the case, in this particular case, means lack of pressure.
 
I remember the first 44 magnum shells I loaded. Pretty minimal loads with H110. The first shot (I happened to be facing into the wind) covered me with burning H110 particles. I learned a lesson about too light of loads with slow burning powder that day!
 
I think it means your to far under minimum load and your ammo isn't burning clean.
According to my reloading AP, 9.2 is the starting charge and 9.8 is maximum for N 340 with a 250 gr bullet in 45 Colt.
https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/?cartridge=53 And VV confirms that.
The reason your powder is burning poorly is because you are to far below minimum load.
The unburnt flakes in the case, in this particular case, means lack of pressure.
That load data says it's for HP-XTP, Hornady bullets. I am using Berry's plated flat points. So, I have been using this data. Screen Shot 2021-10-13 at 2.01.42 PM.png
 
I am loading 45 colt with 250g bullets and currently up to 7.5g of n340.
Sounds low but reasonable...
That shot of the casing is with a full load of 8.3g.
Wait, how did we go from "currently up to 7.5g" to pictures of casings and guns shot with 8.3g?o_O

The .45Colt is kind of interesting. When looking at cast data I default to Lyman's if the manufacturers let me down. Lyman's 48th lists data for a 250gr. jacketed and a couple made of #2 Alloy. Jacketed with N340 and cast with N320. N320 is in the same burn rate range as Promo/Red Dot, Trail Boss, WSL, Silhouette, Green Dot, True Blue and BE-86, fastest to slowest. N340 is in the range of Universal, Unique, SR-7625, WSF, Power Pistol, AutoComp,HS-6, SR-4756, Herco and Longshot. Looking at the data for the common powders - W231, Unique, AA#5, TiteGroup, - there's not a huge gap (TG & W231 are practically identical, AA#5 is -0.5gr) between cast and jacketed (Unique has the widest spread 7.8-8.7 jacketed vs. 6.0-9.0 cast) but cast definitely leans heavier on faster powders. I'd be tempted to use the jacketed N340 data at -10% as a starting load, 7.7gr., which is pretty close to where you started (or are?). But, I'd also recommend working up in .2gr increments, not 1gr. increments. A jump from 7.5 to 8.3 is a bit much.

upload_2021-10-13_14-47-46.png
 
Sounds low but reasonable...

Wait, how did we go from "currently up to 7.5g" to pictures of casings and guns shot with 8.3g?o_O

Because from the time of the original post to the time I said 8.3, I loaded and shot varying increments of loads. So, right after making the original post I went and reloaded 3 rounds at 7.7. Shot them. Came back in and made 3 at 7.9. Shot them and then came in and made 3 at 8.1. Then 8.3. I felt confident in doing .2 grain increments because the loads are so light. At 8.3, most of the issues originally mentioned have improved - although I think there is still room for improvement. Cases still burning. Not sure if I should go any higher.
 
With 45 Colt there are many types of loads. There are the origional loads for black powder revolvers. Also there are loads for Ruger only use. Those are stronger for the pistols that afe made on the Ruger SBH frame. I have both types and load for my high pressure use using jacketed bullets and they rival 44 MAG loads. I save the lead for light loads in weak revolvers. So I find some propellants do not burn well at low pressures but actually aren't higher in the manual due to a pressure spike that demands we stop for weak revolvers. Using a medium burning yet bulky propellant will give better results and seal better at the same time. Even a full case of Trail Boss seals well without burning dirty for me.
 
With plated bullets cast data is usually good. I shoot coated cast out of mine. 8 grains of unique is what i like. I was having leading issues before too. Donny Summers told me don't be afraid to give his boolets a good crimp. Been doing that. No leading and a good burn. With plated im not sure how heavy a crimp to use.
 
I use up to mid range jacketed data with plated bullets and observe the speed limit of 1250fps the bullets have. I've been shooting them since they hit the market.
They are not bare lead bullets and have more friction than lead and less friction than jacketed.
Your scorched cases are because you don't have enough pressure to blow the case out to seal it in the cylinder or your brass has been loaded so many times it has grown hard. I doubt the later is the case.
The only real rule that the bullet companys tell us is to keep the bullets under 1250 fps with normal plated and 1500 fps with thick plate.
Your using lead data and your using plated bullets. You can go higher on your recipe and your loads should clean up.
You won't get close to 1250 so you don't need to worry about that.
 
But that isn’t the bullet I’m using. I’m using a berrys plated flat point.
Yes, different components = different pressure. Plus the data may produce to much pressure for your gun?
brass is burned on the outside
Most of my 38, 45 acp target loads with Bullseye powder do it also. If accuracy y is ok, does not bother me.
I do use a magnum primer for 38, 9mm luger, & WLP for 45 acp. & 44 mag.
 
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So, what I am gathering from the comments is that I can safely go higher than the max load since my bullets are plated and my data is for lead. Also that I may need to buy a chronograph?
 
Yes, you can go higher than lead data a bit. I usually end up in the lower end of jacketed data for plated bullets of the same type (RN for RN, HP for HP). This difference is due to different lengths of the bullet due to the cavity and OAL. Also a crony will be another peice of the puzzle to help you become a better reloader. For a long time I reloaded without one successfully but these days with the lower prices of them it really can be a help to a reloader.
 
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