Fast vs Medium Powder for 9mm/40s&w

BJung said:

action pistol ... Fast vs Medium Powder for 9mm/40s&w ... target load ... which is preferred and why?

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Action pistol match scoring favors speed over accuracy. Key is choosing bullet weight/powder charge combos that allow you to get back faster on sights, faster your stage times and higher your stage score.

Many people complain about "snappy" recoil of 40S&W compared to 9mm but even shooting major power factor loads, depending on the powder used, felt recoil could be tamed quite a bit. And if you are shooting minor power factor loads, you can bring the felt recoil "snappiness" down to 9mm and below.

For my USPSA loads, I tested Bullseye, Clays, Titegroup, W231/HP-38, Universal, WSF, HS-6 and decided on W231/HP-38 for minor/major PF loads and WSF for major PF loads. In subsequent years, I tested Red Dot/Promo, WST, Green Dot, N320, Sport Pistol, Unique, Power Pistol, BE-86, Herco, AutoComp, CFE Pistol and found BE-86, WSF and slower burning powders to produce recoil impulse that "pushed" rather than "snapped".

If you are trying to make major PF with faster burning powders than W231/HP-38, recoil is going to be snappy. FYI, for me BE-86 produced best accuracy but for action pistol, you don't need utmost accuracy.

If you are trying to make minor PF, there are a lot of powders faster than W231/HP-38 along with WSF/Power Pistol/BE-86 that can produce accuracy at lower powder charges and you may want to check out this "Lite 40S&W" comparison article - https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/ammunition_40lite_091806/138689

BTW, 165/180 TCFP bullets can be loaded longer than SAAMI max of 1.135" OAL to increase accuracy. I used 1.143" for TCFP and 1.155" for RNFP for Glock/M&P/Lone Wolf barrels. Depending on barrels used, many match shooters use even longer 1.180"-1.200" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ts-in-glock-40s-w.891295/page-2#post-11992612

For 9mm, especially 115 gr FMJ/RN with shorter bullet base, it's the opposite as you want to load shorter than SAAMI max of 1.169" for greater neck tension. For 115/124 gr FMJ/RN, I prefer to load them shorter at 1.130"-1.135" and have loaded 115 gr FMJ/RN down to 1.110" as shorter OAL produced greater accuracy than 1.150"-1.160".

As to powder selection for 9mm, for making minor PF loads, it is less critical than 40S&W as felt recoil is very tolerable at minor PF range of 125-130. But in general, faster powders like Bullseye will produce more snappy recoil than slower powders like BE-86/WSF.

Could make a difference if you are running a comp as well. LiveLife covered the rest.

A faster powder generally takes less powder so lower recoil from the math.
Having said that for my 9mm match loads I prefer something with a medium burn speed as to me the recoil is less snappy. (most other shooters tend to go with the faster powder)

Everybody is different so the best thing would be to try one of each and see what shoots best and feels best to you.

Dudedog said:

for my 9mm match loads I prefer something with a medium burn speed as to me the recoil is less snappy. (most other shooters tend to go with the faster powder)

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I am in agreement as while faster burning than W231/HP-38 powders actually produced slightly better accuracy, I liked the slower recoil impulse of W231/HP-38 that allowed me to get front sight back faster on target.
I think Titegroup, N320, Sport Pistol, W231/HP-38, W244, BE-86, Power Pistol, WSF burn rate represent a nice cluster of powders that can produce less snappy recoil compared to more faster burning powders.

I’ve been loading 165gr Berry’s over a max load of Ramshot Competition, which is a pretty fast powder. To me at least, it seems to have a much milder recoil impulse that most factory loads.

Here's the thing about gunpowder and recoil. When comparing gunpowders that push the same bullet to the same speed, the one that uses less charge weight produces less recoil force.

It is demonstrated here:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/measure-relative-handgun-recoil/99442

fxvr5 said:

Here's the thing about gunpowder and recoil. When comparing gunpowders that push the same bullet to the same speed, the one that uses less charge weight produces less recoil force.

It is demonstrated here:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/measure-relative-handgun-recoil/99442

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Generally, slower powders use more weight than fast powders, and therefore generally produce more recoil force.

I understand the math, but always found the felt recoil of Titegroup to be more severe than N320. This was for competition loads to achieve minor, with 147gr 9mm. ASP is what I’m shooting now and is also less severe than Titegroup. All powder weights were within a tenth or two. It could be I just wanted another excuse not to use Titegroup.

I used to use HS-6 for high end 9mm loads with a 124gr bullet. I never thought I would stop using HS-6 but I fear it will be discontinued in the fairly near future. I have been using W572 instead with very good results. I use W231 for all my other 9mm ammo. I just love W231 for sure.

I don't personally shoot the 40 S&W but a shooting buddy uses AA#7 ever since HS-7 was discontinued.

Very Interesting post. Yesterday I was able to find, for the first time in awhile WSF and HS-6 powder, so I order a couple of WSF at 1# and 1# HS-6.

I really like using WST on 45 loads as they burn clean and keeping them a few grains from max, function well in all my 45 firearms with excellent accuracy.

Since the shortage, I've had the opportunity to obtain the less popular 40 S&W caliber. Of course these have mostly been LEO turn ins with the exception of my SA S&W 40 Mod 2 (love that firearm as it is super accurate with every load i've tested be it manufacturer ammo or reloads. My other goto is my M&P with the 5 inch barrel. To add to that, I generally like reloading 40 S&W more than 9mm. The cases for me are much easier to handle and overall reloading is faster.

With a recent acquisition of an MP40c, I've been on the hunt for a good load for that particular firearm (like it for conceal carry as it can be adjusted for left handed shooters unlike the Shield models) and settled for Sport Pistol and HDY XTP bullets. I tried WST which was my second powder, but Sport Pistol felt better overall on the MP40c.

Now, having acquired some WSF, I'll definitely be trying that powder. I'm hoping that just like WST for 45acp, WSF will provide excellent feel when fired out of the MP40c. I got some HS-6 to try as well, but having read of folks liking WSF for 40S&W, and seeing some powder available, I couldn't resist on getting a different powder. I've found my powder preferences in 9mm and 45acp. Now the opportunity presents itself to enjoy working with new powders and testing different loads for the 40 S&W.



CH

I really like WSF in 9mm, works well across it's charge range,meters good to.

I've used WSF in 9mm for decades, works good. My late shooting buddy used it in the 40 cal too. Meters good.

I purchased a pound of AA #5 on advise from a couple posters on various forums to try in mt 40 S&W loads. I like the way the recoil is but have not tried it for competition as all I do is bullseye when I compete.

BigBoreBubba said:

I’ve been loading 165gr Berry’s over a max load of Ramshot Competition, which is a pretty fast powder. To me at least, it seems to have a much milder recoil impulse that most factory loads.

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I inherited 16 pounds and have zero experience with a powder that fast. It may sit for a while....

For non compensated pistols, fast powders and heavy bullets feel softer than slower powders lighter bullets at the same power factor.

I have probably won more matches with 3.1gn of N310 with a plated 147 @ 1.160”, than all other load combinations. Soft, clean, makes powerfactor under every condition I have used it in also runs in everything I have tried it in except the ported barrel of the MP5SD, runs in a regular MP5.