Berry's 1+1= 2?

JD Fla1 · Oct 17, 2021

So, just loading up some Berry's 9mm 124g r.n
and doing some math---
example of case length I have = .747"
bullet = .588" x .356
total = 1.335"
c.o.l. using Berry's data and Ramshot data for Silhouette = 1.160"
This tells me only .175" of bullet base is inside the cartridge after seating.
Does this seem like very little case is holding the bullet in place?
and is this good to go?

vongh · Oct 17, 2021

I never did this calculation before. I think it's perfectly fine. I work in a machine shop and we do heavy machining hanging on to .125 in vice jaws or lathe chucks. I know 2 different things but it goes to show that the press fit between the case and bullet can be very strong.

Walkalong · Oct 17, 2021

JD Fla1 said:
Does this seem like very little case is holding the bullet in place?
and is this good to go?

Yes, and maybe.

I don't load any 9MM bullet, including RN, which are usually the longest seated bullets, that long. Any reason you are loading that long? Berrys recommends 1.130. I load 9MM round nose bullets to fall between 1.130 and 1.135 OAL.

JD Fla1 · Oct 17, 2021

my eyes must have crossed, I thought I went there right before I loaded these up, and saw 1,160. gotta check again..

Walkalong · Oct 17, 2021

Well, I just looked and can't find the chart there. I have two charts from Berrys, one just shows the SAMMI max. I added the one with their suggested OALs to my previous post..

JD Fla1 · Oct 17, 2021

Snippet from Berry's page
copied and pasted.
you gotta go to description, then loading tips.

Bullet O.A.L.: .585"

Cartridge Name: 9mm
Cartridge O.A.L.: 1.160"
Max Velocity: 1250 fps

Load data for our Superior Plated Bullets® can be found in any manual or on any powder manufacturer’s website.
Cast or jacketed data with the same grain weight and profile will work with our bullets.
You can use a taper or a roll crimp.
Don’t over crimp the brass after seating. This causes bullet core separation, leading to increased copper fouling and accuracy issues.
Don’t exceed the recommended maximum velocities listed. This creates bullet core separation and accuracy issues.

AJC1 · Oct 17, 2021

Does that plunk good in your chamber? I load shorter because I want more neck bullet contact for good neck tension but you may end up doing a seating depth test later down the road. I normally just run ocw and call it a day.

JD Fla1 · Oct 17, 2021

yes, it did pass the plunk in my pistol

I am kinda new at the reloading room. I don't know how much to compensate in load weight when I seat deeper.

ImjinScout85 · Oct 17, 2021

I load a lot of 9mm Berry's in the 115gr., the longest I load is 1.142 and the is VVN320 powder, for HP-38 powder I load @1.130. The 1.160 seems a little long to me seeing the the Sammi max is 1.169 for 9mm, you are only .009 inches away from max length.

LiveLife · Oct 17, 2021

JD Fla1 said:
Berry's 9mm 124g r.n

... only .175" of bullet base is inside the cartridge ... is this good to go?

No.

I have done enough load development with Berry's regular plated RN and thick plated HBRN-TP and once accurate powder charges were identified at 1.150"-1.160" OAL, incrementally decreasing the OAL down to 1.135" produced smaller groups for most powders I used from Bullseye/Red Dot/Promo to BE-86/WSF. likely from greater neck tension from thicker case wall further down the case neck.

ImjinScout85 said:
I load a lot of 9mm Berry's in the 115gr.... I load @1.130.

I also prefer to load 115 gr RN to 1.130" and if I want to squeeze out little bit more accuracy, load shorter down to 1.110" OAL.

AJC1 · Oct 17, 2021

JD Fla1 said:
yes, it did pass the plunk in my pistol

I am kinda new at the reloading room. I don't know how much to compensate in load weight when I seat deeper.

Figure out your inital length and start at the starting charge and go up.

GeoDudeFlorida · Oct 17, 2021

LiveLife said:
No.

I have done enough load development with Berry's regular plated RN and thick plated HBRN-TP and once accurate powder charges were identified at 1.150"-1.160" OAL, incrementally decreasing the OAL down to 1.135" produced smaller groups for most powders I used from Bullseye/Red Dot/Promo to BE-86/WSF. likely from greater neck tension from thicker case wall further down the case neck.

I also prefer to load 115 gr RN to 1.130" and if I want to squeeze out little bit more accuracy, load shorter down to 1.110" OAL.

Yup. I stay between 1.110-1.120” with the Berry’s, X-Treme and Rainier PRN 115gr. Not my favorite bullet. Prefer the 124gr. I feed five 9mm’s and the shorter COAL range cited works in all of them. Closer to 1.110” vs 1.120” depends on the brass I’m using.

Atavar · Oct 17, 2021

I am pretty much the same. 1.3 would not go in my Barretta mags. Anything over 1.160 has an interference fit in the mag. I load shorter to give it some headroom in the mag. I’m

bersaguy · Oct 18, 2021

With Berrys 115's my CZ75 likes 1.155, starts to bump into the rifiling at 1.160, so I've started seating at 1.150 just to have some wiggle room. I had a bit of a brain fart early on and instead of loading 1.155, I loaded to 1.115, these all are loaded with 4.5g Bullseye, and at 1.115, accuracy was terrible. Also, found out from some members here that have access to quickload software, the estimated pressure for that shorter load was right up near max for standard 9mm.

JD Fla1 · Oct 18, 2021

tonight, I will see where this bullet bumps into the rifling. I don't feel comfortable at 1.160, so I'll move it back in to 1.140 or 1.135. -
Ramshot Book load data - 2 4 (P) BE R R Y R N 5 .2g to 5 .8g @ 1 ,1 3 3 fps col 1 .1 6 0 - pressure at max 34,9 8 6 psi
I loaded initially at 5.4 and 5.6 for testing. - you think 5.6 should still be inside of max?

Walkalong · Oct 18, 2021

JD Fla1 said:
I don't feel comfortable at 1.160, so I'll move it back in to 1.140 or 1.135. -.........5 .8g @ 1 ,1 3 3 fps col 1 .1 6 0........you think 5.6 should still be inside of max?

No, not shortened by .020 to .030, 5.4 might even be your max. I would seat them to fall between 1.130/1.135 and start back at 5.2. Stop at 1100 FPS if you have a chrono.

Edit: So, I misread the Berrys Chart, I was looking at 115 Gr.
That said, I still load all RN 115/124 Gr at 1.130/1.135, but am less opposed to 1.160 than I was.

Berry's Bullets C.O.L.
Caliber Type OAL C.O.L. .
.
9mm (.356)
115gr FP 0.500 1.060
115gr RN 0.550 1.130
115gr HBRN 0.590 1.130
124gr HBFP 0.550 1.060
124gr HBRN 0.620 1.160
124gr RN 0.590 1.160

GeoDudeFlorida · Oct 18, 2021

JD Fla1 said:
tonight, I will see where this bullet bumps into the rifling. I don't feel comfortable at 1.160, so I'll move it back in to 1.140 or 1.135. -
Ramshot Book load data - 2 4 (P) BE R R Y R N 5 .2g to 5 .8g @ 1 ,1 3 3 fps col 1 .1 6 0 - pressure at max 34,9 8 6 psi
I loaded initially at 5.4 and 5.6 for testing. - you think 5.6 should still be inside of max?

No. Drop back to 5.2 as your median load and run a ladder up .2gr. and down .2gr. If you stop getting reliable cycling at 5.0gr, but 5.4gr seems too "hot", then reconsider your seating depth.

I seat deep so I always drop back to minimum charges and run down one rung as well as up one rung, to make sure I'm still in the safety zone. FEE and velocity are going to tell the tale. Be safe and have fun.

FROGO207 · Oct 18, 2021

I always have kept at least one caliber of bullet to neck contact for any ammo. That is what the old timers told me when I started to learn reloading in earnest. Then inters MAG length. Finally it needs to pass the plunk test. That will be my final starting, load length for a work up. This has worked well for 30+ years. Just sayi'n.

higgite · Oct 18, 2021

FROGO207 said:
I always have kept at least one caliber of bullet to neck contact for any ammo. That is what the old timers told me when I started to learn reloading in earnest. Then inters MAG length. Finally it needs to pass the plunk test. That will be my final starting, load length for a work up. This has worked well for 30+ years. Just sayi'n.

Rifle calibers, not pistol calibers like 9mm and 45 ACP, right?

FROGO207 · Oct 18, 2021

Many pistol calibers can't have this happen. But in say 45 ACP I try to not use light weight bullets as a rule. Not that they will not work but just one of my "things". More neck tension/longer interferance fit makes less chance of bullet setback.

Berry's 1+1= 2?

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