Most likely cause of horizontal flyers?

Ruger 77's are not noted for accuracy. to get it better you may have to do some work to it. Free float, bedding. I don't know just guessing. With a heavy recoil rifle technique is important when shooting off bags.

My normal common problem in horizontal or vertical spread is sight picture. Instead of concentrating on the very center of the aim point (usually a small round target of some form) I will shoot whenever the crosshair or front sight is somewhere in the black.
A makeshift rest can cause the same problems.
The "gotcha-YANK" trigger pull system manifests as this sort of problem as well. No serious shooter would be guilty of such. Not me, surely. No. Hunh-nah.

wombat13 said:

Here's another example target. This was sighting in my Savage Axis II last year prior to hunting season. 100 gr. Nosler Partition factory loads. Top three are at 100 yards. Bottom three are at 200 yards. Not surprised the 200 yard group is about 2 inches max spread. 100 yard group would be very tight, but there is that one shot about 1"-1.5" to the right.
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Doesn`t everybody do that? LOL!! You put two in there really close...and then....for who knows why......??

If the rifle isn’t moving when you touch the trigger, and if the scope is functioning, and all this ammunition is the same, all I’m am seeing is a non- bedded, non-free floated rifle, whose stock is changing with humidity.
Even if the barrel is cooled the act of getting it hot will have an affect on the moisture content of the stock. A wandering zero from season to season is another symptom of this.
Perfectly acceptable for most applications.

In my experience, these are the most common reasons:
1- not achieving natural point of aim for the shot
2- trigger control
3- a deficiency in use of support (rifle sliding on bag, loose bipod, etc.)
4- wind effects (unlikely with a 338 WM at 100).

Your shooting position behind the rifle makes a big difference. Pull the rifle into your shoulder, while looking at your target through the scope, does it move sideways?

My experience and observation tells me such horizontal spread (as in post # 32) come from a sight picture on target not as consistent as one thinks. The rather firm horizontal line indicates a pretty decent rest for the forend. That largely prevents vertical movement.
Vertical movement is usually a result of mirage, the 'dancing' of the air leads to 'dancing' of the bull.

Since the variation in shots is rather small, perhaps a bedding problem, which allows a tiny shift of the barreled action in the stock, this causes the entire rifle to recoil slightly to the left or right resulting in marginal errors. If that is the problem, it will be quite subtle.

Is this a hunting item or a target piece? If a hunting rifle, the accuracy might just be more than adequate. I also suggest keeping a record of shots to determine if the first shot is closer to the mark and how far and what direction shots 2, 3, 4 and so on impact to see if one can find a pattern to the shot holes.

What sort of rest system do you use?

I quit using the rest after I get my load developed. I would now zero using whatever means you will use in the field. I always used a bipod, so I zeroed off a bipod. It's not free floated, so I wouldn't get to caught up on precision. I would still just zero off of the cold bore, and see if you can hold a group over a few days of cold bore shots. If this was a precision set up, yeah, figure out what's going on with your mechanics. Tiny one hole groups are repeatable, only if you do the same thing exactly the same each shot. Good luck!!

Archie said:

My experience and observation tells me such horizontal spread (as in post # 32) come from a sight picture on target not as consistent as one thinks. The rather firm horizontal line indicates a pretty decent rest for the forend. That largely prevents vertical movement.
Vertical movement is usually a result of mirage, the 'dancing' of the air leads to 'dancing' of the bull.

Since the variation in shots is rather small, perhaps a bedding problem, which allows a tiny shift of the barreled action in the stock, this causes the entire rifle to recoil slightly to the left or right resulting in marginal errors. If that is the problem, it will be quite subtle.

Is this a hunting item or a target piece? If a hunting rifle, the accuracy might just be more than adequate. I also suggest keeping a record of shots to determine if the first shot is closer to the mark and how far and what direction shots 2, 3, 4 and so on impact to see if one can find a pattern to the shot holes.

What sort of rest system do you use?

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Hunting groups vs. target groups. Purpose of the gun is indeed something to consider, IMHO, when looking at groups. In my own case with my .223, I`m looking for " Minute of coyote". Accuracy is more important than absolute precision in a hunting rifle. Again, IMHO.

Shot groups ideally should be (more or less) round. A shot group that is oval (wider than higher, higher than wider or spread out at an angle) indicates something is wrong. Even a shot group as tight as yours. The side to side movement ideally should be eliminated. Normally, an 'inaccurate' firearm will shoot a circular group, but much larger than an 'accurate' arm. Please understand, 'accurate' or 'inaccurate' are relative terms. But the shot group should be circular.

With a handgun, the causes are much more obvious; flinching, pushing the handgun, yanking (even subtly), 'bucking' and so forth.
With a rifle, the problem is much more subtle and hidden. Tensing up of the upper body - notably the shooting shoulder - differently for various shots will cause variations in impact site. Tensing of the arms, hands or irregularities while breathing can subtly affect the hits.

Possibly having someone else watch you might give a clue. Or video yourself shooting and watch yourself for possible quirks.

Without seeing you shoot in person (I live in Nebraska) that is the total of my thinking.

wombat13 said:

It could be a bedding problem, I suppose, but I'm noticing something similar with multiple rifles. That suggest to me that it's something I'm doing rather than a rifle issue. So far, the targets I've posted are from a .338WM Ruger M77 in laminate stock (the first one) and a .25-06 Savage Axis II (plastic stock).

These are both hunting rifles (all of mine are). I know the accuracy is good enough, but I'm trying to refine my technique. Also, flyers make it difficult to develop handloads. Difficult to know if the rifle doesn't like the load or if I messed up the shot. Even if I know that I messed up the shot, a flyer means I would have to reload that charge weight and is a waste of time and components.

Here are a couple targets from my Ruger Hawkeye .300WM. Look at that Federal factory load. Group looks very similar to the factory Nosler BTs in the Savage. Eliminate the horizontal dispersion and I'd be pretty happy with the handload. I've been hunting the last two years with the Federal factory ammo. What I find particularly interesting about these two targets is the "pairing" of shots. Both loads have two pairs of shots that are touching or nearly so. Then there is a fifth that is by itself. I think it is clear that I'm doing something to cause that.
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Maybe have a buddy run a few groups for comparison

What is the trigger pull?
Off the bat, I question trigger pull. I have a Ruger .22Hornet that would do that until I took the trigger down to 2.5lbs (was ~7lbs).

Also, when was it built? A pre-M77/MkII made after ‘81 is suspect for the barrel.
I had a gunsmith friend who purchased a M77 .338wm circa 1983. With his load (300gr Nosler over IMR4350) it wouldn’t shoot tighter than 6” at 100yds and he had an Alaska hunt planned in 6weeks.

Ruger refused to warranty accuracy at the time! He called a contact at ERShaw and had a contour duplication barrel sent. Received it in 2weeks. Installed it and took rifle/ammo to range. After collating, and verified at 25yds, the first three rounds at 100yds “touched”.
He took a B&C moose with it and a 10’ bear.
He sent the Ruger barrel, test groups, and pics of game and copy of E.R.Shaw invoice to Ruger.

3mos later, article on hunt appeared in an Alaska journal and discussed barrel swap and Ruger accuracy problems.

He soon received a personal apology letter from none other Bill Ruger! He showed it to me.
Bill Ruger sent a check for the cost of the E.R.Shaw barrel with no other explanation...

The 180gr load groups look like what my .338/06 would shoot with a 180gr Nosler B.T. (Adams &Bennet barrel).
I returned the original.30/06 barrel to it last year as I killed my first deer with it circa 1976.
It’s a MkX Mauser and with the original barrel (Wilson, I’m told) will shoot sub moa 5-shots.

The A&B barrel never would shoot better than 2.5moa (5-shots).

Pulling right is hard trigger pull. Practice clean, consistent trigger pull.

https://www.thompsontarget.com/scope-alignment-sight-in-9x12-paper-shooting-targets/

I’ve found that using a good target that can be bracketed and easily seen makes a world of difference. Most of my hunting scopes are still 3-9x or lower in magnification and pin point accuracy hampered by thicker crosshairs that obscure more of the target. That’s something else to consider.

Ruger 10/22 I believe at 25 yards.


Winchester 30-06 at 100 yards.

JDGray said:

I quit using the rest after I get my load developed. I would now zero using whatever means you will use in the field. I always used a bipod, so I zeroed off a bipod. It's not free floated, so I wouldn't get to caught up on precision. I would still just zero off of the cold bore, and see if you can hold a group over a few days of cold bore shots. If this was a precision set up, yeah, figure out what's going on with your mechanics. Tiny one hole groups are repeatable, only if you do the same thing exactly the same each shot. Good luck!!

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Completely agree. Expecting bench accuracy from a hunting rifle that has more free recoil than some people's punches is a bad idea.
A scope that doesn't allow you to have your head far enough back with said high recoil rifle can induce a flinch.
I started shooting my 6 pound Whelen using shooting sticks because I don't care what it does from a bench. Neither do the deer I killed with it.

Bfh_auto said:

Completely agree. Expecting bench accuracy from a hunting rifle that has more free recoil than some people's punches is a bad idea.
A scope that doesn't allow you to have your head far enough back with said high recoil rifle can induce a flinch.
I started shooting my 6 pound Whelen using shooting sticks because I don't care what it does from a bench. Neither do the deer I killed with it.

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Shooting a hunting rifle/scope from the bench (zeroing the scope aside ) IMO just shows that the gun is accurate enough, or not, to get the job done with a given hunting load and that any misses will be on you. Having said that, I do enjoy just shooting my .223 for fun with non-hunting rounds to work on precision. I know the gun itself is accurate enough.

I’ll add that I still bench them from time to time, confirming the zero hasn’t moved.

Here's a little aiming guide that normally helps me get dialed in.