.45 Super Question

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SwampWolf

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A good friend of mine is interested in shooting his Glock pistol, chambered in .45 ACP, with the .45 Super cartridge, giving some additional flexibility to the gun. He feels that, because the dimensions of the .45 ACP and the .45 Super cases are the same (but with the Super case having more brass in the base), most, if not all modern pistols chambered in .45 ACP would (should) be compatible and interchangeable with .45 Super ammunition. Is this possible or even feasible let alone practical (he does reload)? I can find nothing in the many reloading manuals I have that address or describe the .45 Super cartridge.
The ballistic chart in the latest Gun Digest, however, shows the .45 Super to be a much more powerful round than the "standard" .45 ACP. For instance, when comparing bullets weighing 185 grains, the mv of the .45 ACP is rated @ 1,000 fps, while the .45 Super generates 1,300 fps (though the .45 ACP "+P" load produces 1140 fps).
So my question is, can pistols chambered in .45 ACP safely use .45 Super ammunition (or use it at all) without alteration? Thanks for all responses.
 
If the Muzzle Energies of a full Norma 10mm load and that of .45 Super are comparable, then I’d wager it’d probably be all right...

You may need different recoil springs to account for the “suboptimal” locking block geometry.
 
On another forum, one of the members spent a bunch of time, effort, and money trying various "heavy hitter" rounds in various semi-auto pistols, so he could avoid carrying a heavy, slow to reload, revolver in a some magnum caliber for his regular time spent in Alaska.

I believe he found the G21 could handle the .45 Super OK, but he had difficulty getting them to feed typical bullet shapes that he'd need to take advantage of the .45 Super capabilities on big animals. He had the same problems with the G20 with bullet shapes in 10mm, and the G22 with .40 S&W. He is a Glock fan, and shoots them in competition, and wanted them to work to maintain consistency and familiarity.

He ended up with an HK USP .45 that he found very reliable and plenty durable with the .45 Super. He admits he can't shoot the USP as efficiently as his Glock's, but his desire for the gun had a greater focus on reliability, and durability, rather than shoot-ability.
 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...sion-1000-rounds-and-bunch-of-pigs-later/amp/


This guy did a Glock conversion to safely fire .45 Super using a fully supported barrel, 24 lb recoil spring and tungsten guide rod from Lone Wolf.

Based on other articles I’ve read this relatively inexpensive job creates a reliable shooter.

My factory-made .45 Super (Springfield V-16 1911) has a very stout recoil spring compared to my other .45 ACP 1911’s, so adding a heavier spring at a bare minimum sure makes sense.

Stay safe.
 
Remember your physics, guys! A ten and a 45 loaded to the same pressure levels will result in the 45 beating the gun harder. Why? Larger surface area for that pressure to push against. A 308 has about 10,500 pounds of of thrust against the rifle's locking logs, for a tiny fraction of a second. A .300 Win mag has 14,200. Why the difference? The 308 case has .176 Sq. In. of interior volume for the powder gasses to push against. The 300 has .222 .
 
Thanks for all of the helpful insights, guys. I don't plan on shooting .45 Super ammunition out of my 1911 pistols (currently a Colt Gold Cup and a SIG TTT) but I'm wondering if doing so is feasible and safe, albeit impractical (at least for me). I'm not one who likes to beat a gun to death unnecessarily with "over the top" loads, even if it's safe to do so.
 
This is just my opinion.....

I think your safe to fire a few 45 Super in most full size + production guns that have fully supported chambers with little or no modifications.
BUT your causing ware at a much faster rate than you would with standard spec ammo.

Ive built up an XD45 that ran 230-250s at 1250fps. recoil was unpleasant, even with the comp, but slide velocity and ejection werent anymore vigorous than my buddies 10mm Xdm. A couple shots with the comp off launched the brass about 10-15' in the air and landed them 15 or so feet away.

Running 230s at 1000fps, the comp wasnt necessary, and even with the stock 18lb spring ejection wasnt ridiculous.
 
With a Glock 30S with a 20lbs RSA works decent with 230gr 45super. Recoil feels harder in the palm. Not ideal but works and 45acp still cycles.
I prefer to use a compensator with the threaded barrel and keep the RSA OEM. I can shoot 45super all day and also cycles 45acp without a noticeable change in recoil, still louder at indoor ranges.
Glock 21 13round mags require the correct Wolff spring which can only be bought at their website.
 
I say no. USP can handle it OK but I would probably shoot for a MK23 if I was going to run a steady diet of 45super.

Its not just the slide hitting the frame you have to consider. You also have the Barrel slamming into the frame block. Then you also have the locking surfaces on the barrel to slide beating themselves up. While all that is happening you also have the slide getting all that pressure trying to pull itself apart. Hard to fix all that playing with spring weights and a rubber buffer. Probably possible with a heavy compensator like Rowland uses for the 460 but just spring changes probably wont cut it for long before the gun start beating itself up.

Its been done on a bunch of different 45s though. I remember a while back someone even tried it on a Hi-point (no locking surfaces to worry about). How long all these conversions held up and how much ammo they ran is unknown to me. Probably be similar to just throwing a 40s&w or 357sig barrel in any old 9mm along with a spring change. That didnt work out to well in the 90s for a lot of manufacturers.
 
I say no. USP can handle it OK but I would probably shoot for a MK23 if I was going to run a steady diet of 45super.

Its not just the slide hitting the frame you have to consider. You also have the Barrel slamming into the frame block. Then you also have the locking surfaces on the barrel to slide beating themselves up. While all that is happening you also have the slide getting all that pressure trying to pull itself apart. Hard to fix all that playing with spring weights and a rubber buffer. Probably possible with a heavy compensator like Rowland uses for the 460 but just spring changes probably wont cut it for long before the gun start beating itself up.

Its been done on a bunch of different 45s though. I remember a while back someone even tried it on a Hi-point (no locking surfaces to worry about). How long all these conversions held up and how much ammo they ran is unknown to me. Probably be similar to just throwing a 40s&w or 357sig barrel in any old 9mm along with a spring change. That didnt work out to well in the 90s for a lot of manufacturers.

You're right. Spring changes dont help any gun, only reduces reliability and changes the feel. That is why i use the compensator method. Not all comps are created equal. The weight and ports all play a part. The comp i prefer is just under 1oz with 2 top ports and 1 on each side(4 ports). 100% reliable with a KKM barrel.

And just to be clear, it takes just a couple minutes to swap the barrel and install/uninstall the comp and my intended use for 45super is for wilderness carry.
 
You're right. Spring changes dont help any gun, only reduces reliability and changes the feel. That is why i use the compensator method. Not all comps are created equal. The weight and ports all play a part. The comp i prefer is just under 1oz with 2 top ports and 1 on each side(4 ports). 100% reliable with a KKM barrel.

And just to be clear, it takes just a couple minutes to swap the barrel and install/uninstall the comp and my intended use for 45super is for wilderness carry.

Sounds like you thought it out and got a good handle on it. I like they 45 super very much I just wish there were more pistols made for it. Not a huge fan of the 45acp.
 
Heres how the 230 grain performs at close range. The 185gr are good for hunting at longer ranges. Hardcast 255gr is the only round i would realistically carry for SD in the wild. But the 230gr XTP is no joke.
 
Heres how the 230 grain performs at close range. The 185gr are good for hunting at longer ranges. Hardcast 255gr is the only round i would realistically carry for SD in the wild. But the 230gr XTP is no joke.


I think this makes the most sense to me. Seems to me most .45 JHP's are designed for .45 ACP velocities, not .45 Super.

.45 Super would be best suited for solid rounds, but as the XTP is designed as a hybrid to penetrate AND expand, it seems to do best from what I can tell.

I am thinking about building out my Glock 21 to shoot .45 Super. I am looking to upgrade the mag springs, RSA, and maybe buy an aftermarket barrel, although I think the stock Glock Gen 4 barrel would work. I only plan to shoot 236 gr ball and 255 gr HC, and not much really...still mostly .45 ACP

If I ever do load .45 Super, I'll buy some Starline brass.

Good article on Marksmanship Matters BLOG about the caliber:

http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/comparing-the-10-mm-450-smc-and-45-super-for-predator-defense/
 
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I think this makes the most sense to me. Seems to me most .45 JHP's are designed for .45 ACP velocities, not .45 Super.

.45 Super would be best suited for solid rounds, but as the XTP is designed as a hybrid to penetrate AND expand, it seems to do best from what I can tell.

I am thinking about building out my Glock 21 to shoot .45 Super. I am looking to upgrade the mag springs, RSA, and maybe buy an aftermarket barrel, although I think the stock Glock Gen 4 barrel would work. I only plan to shoot 236 gr ball and 255 gr HC, and not much really...still mostly .45 ACP

If I ever do load .45 Super, I'll buy some Starline brass.

Good article on Marksmanship Matters BLOG about the caliber:

http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/comparing-the-10-mm-450-smc-and-45-super-for-predator-defense/

If I was going to try this with a Glock I would just do an entire upper. Longslide, Longer barrel threaded for a steal compensator etc. Use that as a base and then start adjusting springs. I would rather use a Glock than try to make 45 super work in a 1911 design. HK USP or better yet the MK23 is the best canidate for 45 super IMO. Especially if you are going to run hot and heavy with the cartridge. I tend to be extra cautious when ramping up the power though. Kind of build it for 460rowland and then run 45 super in it type approach.

That MAC video is kind of screwy and Tim should do a part two. I like his youtube stuff (one of the only on youtube) but he kind of dropped the ball on the 45 super video. He has a thing for handcannons (not sure he realizes it yet) and will probably revisit it eventually.

45acp < 45acp+p < 45Super < 460rowland < 45WinMag

Thats what has survived (so far). Detonics had a .451 Detonics Magnum but it never took off and its long gone now. 45 Win Mag is the king of course... for autoloaders in 45. Be nice if someone brought back the Automag IV. Lots of rumors through the years that LAR Grizzly is coming back but I have not seen it happen... Same goes for the Wildey.

From a practical standpoint setting things up for 45 super or 460 rowland is the way to go.....run 45acp for practice. I am not a hard core in terms of practicality with firearms though like I am in other areas of life.
 
Interesting the Buffalo Bore would use that bullet at those velocities then.

I’m good with my 10MM’s. No need or a .45 Super for me. Carry on….

I suspect they are useing what they can get (Probably what Tim did as well). Most people going for 45 super are going to want penetration through thick skulls therefor Hardcast is the way to go. I dont see a future where people are CCWing 45super on a regular basis unless we go to war with some sort of Nephilim Goliaths. 45acp+P is more than adequate for defensive CCW 45caliber fans. Nice thing is set your pistol up for 45super and +P shouldnet be a problem.

10mm is a great round. Gives you all kinds of options. Wish there were more good ones out there. Things are on the upswing though. Hoping Beretta gives us a Modular steel chasis 10mm PX4 rotating barrel type eventually. HK needs to man up and finally get off its rear with a 10mm USP as well.
 
I have an XD45 for 45 Super. I have a thread on here about it if you search it.

I would swap the barrel on that Glock before using hardcasts and I'm not sure how supported the chamber on that Glock barrel is (remember those 40 Kabooms back in the day).

Normally springs and barrels for 45 Super. Maybe even a comp.

It's a decent amount of pressure, but not end of world pressure...

45 ACP: 21,000psi
45 ACP +P: 23,000psi
45 Super: 28,000psi

You can probably get away with it for a few days with any modern quality gun, but a manufactur's manual is unlikely to approve of its use for legal reasons.

But I'm no expert, just a dude with a pawn shop pistol and a dream of "MORE POWER BABY"!!
 
I think every gun will require a slightly different setup of its own to run 45super reliably.

For example, my G30S barrel angles farther than a G21 or G41, which will aid with feeding with higher recoil spring weights. How much higher? Idk. Theoretically, that means a 21 and 41 will have feeding issues with a lower maximum spring weight than a 30.

I can claim that the G30SF will have similar feeding result to a G30S, but the 3oz difference in slide weight will make a major difference in function, especially with a compensator.

Another thing i notice is that most people who get into 45super and 460rowland overbuild the gun with brass landing damn near at the feet. That's good for plinking but not for serious SD, especially when the main talking point of the round is bear propellant.

The G30S, from what I researched, was made for LAPD SIS to run 230gr +p ammunition. The only question i have is, Does the SIS Team train with their duty ammo or standard pressure target ammo?

I check my case ejection distance with both. On my G30S(unmodified), std cases go 6ft, +P go 10ft(or more)
With a 20lbs RSA, 45super 15ft, +P 8ft, std 45acp 3ft
Using that as a benchmark I can do a combination of 3 things to bring 45super case ejection between 6-10ft
Ports or Compensator, RSA weight, Slide weight.

Example: I have a compensator that is so effective that I had to bring the RSA down to 14lbs for function. 45acp brass was lading on my toes, 45super was landing a mere 5ft at the most, recoil was pleasant.
Here and there i would experience failure to go into battery. I installed a 5lb FPS which took care of the problem, but, started getting light primer strikes with Underwood 45super. This setup, because i dont reload, is a no go. Back to the drawing board.
Up to this point in time, the only way i ran 45super for SD is with a OEM barrel 20lbs RSA,6.5lbs FPS and leather gloves. Gloves made it a pleasant shooter cause without, ouch. But, it was 100% reliable. Also, run only jacketed ammo in a OEM barrel.

Anyways, unless you have a machine shop and can build your own compensator, you have to work with whats available.

Last year i found a new .45 comp on ebay. It was $35 and worth for me to test. The seller contact me and asked about what i though. The comp was Lone Wolf Style and didnt fit flush with the slide was my complain. I told him that I wanted a comp similar to a 9mm version "conceal carry" type he also makes, with 2 screws and requires no loctite and fit flush. He asked me for some measurements and 2 months later I have it. I also bought a newer design he came out with that reduces slide speed even more. the best part, the OEM RSA works perfect.

After further investigation, I figured out that the weight of the compensator reduces recoil just as much as ports do. Like adding a heavy suppresor sometimes requires a lighter RSA, any weight on the barrel will reduce slide speed. My previous comp weighed 3oz, the new comps .6oz and .98oz.
Also, since the G30S barrel tilts further, weight on the barrel will have higher effects than that of a G21 or G41. With the new comps brass stays within 3 to 10 feet, acceptable, and the peace of mind of having OEM springs.

Adding an optic will make a small difference in slide weight.

NOTE:
+P RATED GUNS ONLY
When testing 45super in your firearm, examine each case between every shot, make a note of the configuration of the firearm as well as the case ejection distance and pattern. Look for pressure signs but more importantly look at the primer strike, it can tell you alot about whats going on. Compare them to your standard pressure and +P cases.

In conclusion,
My advice is to get a threaded barrel from a reputable manufacturer(do your homework) if you dont already have one.
Without Mods to the gun fire 45acp and +P and note the case ejection margin. Find a comp that will bring 45super case ejection to within that margin. There are universal designs, i would start with one that looks good and cross your fingers. A design that doesn't require loctite is desirable.
With this method, upgraded mag springs should NOT be necessary when achieving the operable slide speed.

For SD, case ejection of 3ft or more. Maybe you will cycle +P and 45super well, but std pressure rounds will be in limpwrist territory.

If you have a really soft shooting 45acp setup already, where cases are landing at your feet, then I'm sure 45super will function fine. But, start off with examining the cases.

Tedious, but it's not rocket science.
 
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