Careful when shooting blanks

When my Father was in high school, a student was killed at a track meet when the starter pistol (probably a revolver in .32 or .38 S&W) was fired at close range and pointed in the general direction of the participants. The blank round's cardboard disk impacted and slipped between the ribs of the deceased, causing fatal internal injury.

I had another cadet in ROTC fire an M200 5.56 blank at me without a BFA at a distance of 50 ft. and I could feel the gas and powder. He then hand charged the M16A1 again while running up closer, and was about to fire it at the back of my assistant gunner's head from about 2 feet away when I grabbed the front sight tower of the rifle, pulled him into the foxhole, pulled the rifle out of his hands and proceeded to buttstroke him with it repeatedly until the officer running the FTX pulled me off of him. I did not get in trouble. He did, they were told to point the rifles away from us when firing without a BFA. (there weren't enough to go around)
Fortunately, M200 blanks are crimped instead of having a disk to cap them. But as this recent tragedy and Jon-Eric Hexum's tragic death on the set show, not following the 4 Rules can have dire concequences.

When I was in the military (100 years ago) every training exercise was started with the Company Gunny placing an empty CRAT can on the end of an M14 and shooting it. Saw it and believed it..

entropy said:

I had another cadet in ROTC fire an M200 5.56 blank at me without a BFA at a distance of 50 ft. and I could feel the gas and powder. He then hand charged the M16A1 again while running up closer, and was about to fire it at the back of my assistant gunner's head from about 2 feet away when I grabbed the front sight tower of the rifle, pulled him into the foxhole, pulled the rifle out of his hands and proceeded to buttstroke him with it repeatedly until the officer running the FTX pulled me off of him. I did not get in trouble. He did, they were told to point the rifles away from us when firing without a BFA. (there weren't enough to go around)
Fortunately, M200 blanks are crimped instead of having a disk to cap them. But as this recent tragedy and Jon-Eric Hexum's tragic death on the set show, not following the 4 Rules can have dire concequences.

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When were you in the program?

I also shot a lot of M200 in ROTC. The BFA was a mandatory piece of safety equipment, and not having one was a NOGO for any field exercise.

U of Minn., 1981-82. IIRC , the ROTC Cadre relied on Camp Ripley to provide BFA's, and we got them on all the 60's, and about 75% of the 16's, but instead of having some of the aggressors sit out, or even take them from us freshmen. (the OPFOR-it was an exercise for the Jr's and Sr's on planning and executing an attack, to include FAC and CAS interaction. They had a CCT and F-4's from Duluth "strafing us" at tree top level) I'm glad one wasn't going over when the guy shot at me, I'd have never heard it, and the heat was nothing compared to the F-4 exhaust. I'd also have never heard him charge the rifle again and run up on us, That's when I turned and pulled him down in the hole.

entropy said:

U of Minn., 1981-82. IIRC , the ROTC Cadre relied on Camp Ripley to provide BFA's, and we got them on all the 60's, and about 75% of the 16's, but instead of having some of the aggressors sit out, or even take them from us freshmen. (the OPFOR-it was an exercise for the Jr's and Sr's on planning and executing an attack, to include FAC and CAS interaction. They had a CCT and F-4's from Duluth "strafing us" at tree top level) I'm glad one wasn't going over when the guy shot at me, I'd have never heard it, and the heat was nothing compared to the F-4 exhaust. I'd also have never heard him charge the rifle again and run up on us, That's when I turned and pulled him down in the hole.

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OK. That makes sense. I was mid-90's- Things had changed by then. Great story!

For those of that were not in the military, can you include a description of what these acronyms mean:
M200
BFA
FTX
CRAT
OPFOR
FAC
CAS
CCT

Among the dummy and prop guns in my collection, I have several electronic "noise and flash" guns that act as cue markers for sound dubbing and special effect crews.
There is no real reason to have guns capable of having live rounds or even full-power blanks on a movie set.

entropy said:

I had another cadet in ROTC fire an M200 5.56 blank at me without a BFA at a distance of 50 ft. and I could feel the gas and powder. He then hand charged the M16A1 again while running up closer, and was about to fire it at the back of my assistant gunner's head from about 2 feet away when I grabbed the front sight tower of the rifle, pulled him into the foxhole, pulled the rifle out of his hands and proceeded to buttstroke him with it repeatedly until the officer running the FTX pulled me off of him. I did not get in trouble. He did, they were told to point the rifles away from us when firing without a BFA (there weren't enough to go around). Fortunately, M200 blanks are crimped instead of having a disk to cap them. But as this recent tragedy and Jon-Eric Hexum's tragic death on the set show, not following the 4 Rules can have dire concequences.

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Who's the idiot who didn't make sure the weaponry was "secured" prior to the excercise?

If there weren't enough BFAs to go around, why did safety suddenly get thrown out the window?

How on earth is not having a BFA acceptable?

Wouldn't buttstroking the FTX Officer in Charge make you more of a man?

SterlingBullet said:

For those of that were not in the military, can you include a description of what these acronyms mean:
M200
BFA
FTX
CRAT
OPFOR
FAC
CAS
CCT

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M200 -- blank ammunition in 5.56x45
BFA - blank firing adapter - it's a block that clamps to the end of the barrel to help the gun cycle and prevent stuff going downrange
FTX - field training exercise
CRAT - c-ration (canned food used before MREs)
OPFOR - opposition force
FAC - forward air control
CAS - close air support
CCT - combat control team

SterlingBullet said:

M200
BFA
FTX
CRAT
OPFOR
FAC
CAS
CCT

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BFA = Blank Firing Adapter
FTX = Field Training eXercise
CRAT = (alt C-Rat): Field food ration type C
OPFOR = OPposing FORce (a simulated enemy force able to respond to the force in training)
FAC = Forward Artillery Controller, a trained observer able to give precise targeting for attached arty units
CAS = Close Air Support, Aircraft deployed specifically for air-to-ground attack, and loitering "on station" available "on call" by directors on the ground (who, depending on the Service may also be called "FAC" as Forward Air Controller).

.455_Hunter said:

The "Brandon Lee" link implying that a projectile became lodged in the bore prior to the intended blanks being fired.

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That part, alone, is easy to grasp. But that must have been quite a blank load.

Absolutely blanks are dangerous. Movie prop blanks even more so because they are usually loaded with more powder to create muzzle flashes along with noise. Unfortunately movies are not known for showing safe gun handling and people being choreographed careless are likely to continue being careless off camera as well.

TarDevil said:

That part, alone, is easy to grasp. But that must have been quite a blank load.

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I would expect that a modern blank load, intended to convey some sense of a real BP cartridge, would have no issues propelling a 200 - 250 gr lead projectile at 500+ fps.

It's also pretty amazing how many people are killed with "empty" guns in the first place, blanks or no.

I have a hard time pointing my bolt action rifle anywhere near the vicinity of other people when the bolt's out and I'm cleaning it. Not only is there no ammo in the chamber, the bolt isn't installed and I can see straight down the barrel. I just...can't intentionally point it at someone, it's that ingrained for me.

I can't imagine what it would be like to be an actor in a movie where I would have to point a firearm at someone, or be the person with a firearm pointed at. Nope...not may cuppa coffee, thank you very much. Same for security drills which use blanks for training.

Real ammo, blanks, or verified empty...ALL firearms deserve respect for their potential to cause harm if you screw up.

When doing modern-day reenactment (WW2 etc.), using blanks becomes more complicated. The blanks have to not only make a flash and bang, but also function the weapon. That means use of a Blank Firing Adapter of some kind, which can itself become a missile if not securely fastened. Military-issue BFAs are obvious, which makes them safer, but at the same time that very obviousness detracts from the authentic atmosphere of the event. So, reenactors resort to "Hollywood" style BFAs, which are not externally evident. (For example, the muzzle of a weapon might be counterbored and threaded, with a plug inserted that acts as a bore restrictor. Or, a bore restrictor may be sandwiched between the muzzle and a flash hider.) Such BFAs can be expelled, with disastrous results.

Another kind of disaster can take place if one forgets that a bore restrictor is in place, and then fires a live round.

A special case is certain German machine gun blanks, which have hollow wooden "bullets" to allow feeding through the mechanism. When using such bulleted blanks, a shredder must be attached to the muzzle. But wood slivers are still expelled.

A cardinal rule in using any kind of blank is never to point the gun in the direction of a person.

Just my two cents:
1. Props guns are an entirely different animal than a (converted) blank firing gun - for the later you need a qualified armorer on set. All times, no exceptions, in the US.
2. After the Brandon Lee incident ALL blank firing guns are required to have some sort of a barrel obstruction - in the case of revolvers it's usually a steel ring wedged in the barrel from the back side. No way a live round could fire safely in such a gun - it will just blow up. And this is required in the US, not some unknown third world country, mind you...
3. A single live round found on set will most likely result in firing the armorer responsible - no one in his right mind will do such a thing, as he would be hard pressed to find a job in the industry with such resume.
4. Dummy rounds have a BB in them to tell you acoustically that this is EXACTLY a dummy round, not a live one.
5. Blank ammo comes in different charges - i.e. full charge, half charge, quarter charge, solid plug (for the barrel) and they are chosen carefully to match the scene.
6. Close up shots fired directly at the camera (cameraman) are fairly common - in this instance there is a full body shield from thick perspex for the operator and additional protective equipment for him/her. It can't save you from a life round, but it's safe even from full charge rifle rounds and the occasional shrapnel that may happen (it shouldn't, at no time).
7. Let's wait for more information, shall we? At this point we know exactly nothing, so speculating about what happen is futile and counter productive.

"Dummy rounds have a BB in them to tell you acoustically that this is EXACTLY a dummy round, not a live one."
To test feed problems in guns, I have made dummy rounds, painting the bullet and cartridge base fire engine red.
Putting a BB in the case so the dummy will rattle when shaken is a good addition.