Springfield Armory SA-35

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That's interesting to know. We think of 1911s as durable, but weren't they refurbished by the Army at least once or twice?
Not so much "these days" but, decades back the 1911 got a LOT of hate from people who shot one that the Military had "re done". Often the "re-due" was poorly done by people who either did not really know what they were doing and or just did not care. This later would result in people telling others the design was crap. Often some of these guys were quite shocked when they got to handle and shoot better put together samples of the pistol. As for "durability"? Well how many decades now has the design been something it seems every major player is offering in their catalog. Says a lot about the design and how it will last.
 
Longevity in military service isn't always a testimony to durability when in reference to a handgun.

Not just various militaries but police forces around the planet. The BHP would not have survived in those countries and agencies inventories for that many decades if it had an inherently weak design.

I’m not arguing that a BHP won’t wear out or break under hard use. I’m not even saying it’s the best pistol ever made. It’s a mechanical device designed back in 30’s.

What I am saying is the BHP has held up under use for half a century as the world’s service pistol (minus the US). That doesn’t sound like a weak pistol to me. Would so many people be so excited at the prospect of clone if it was? I don’t think so.
 
Ive been tracking a few sales of them on gunbroker and all have gone for well over $2,000.

Speaking to a local dealer yesterday when buying ammo, their is a titanic demand for these new Springfields. I would expect these to be selling for several time the MSRP for months to come, as the Colt Pythons did when reintroduced last year.

And yet I am also seeing reports of SA35s coming in at list price and even at "blue label" cop discount.
But there are a lot more places advertising list price... on guns they don't have.
 
What I am saying is the BHP has held up under use for half a century as the world’s service pistol (minus the US). That doesn’t sound like a weak pistol to me. Would so many people be so excited at the prospect of clone if it was? I don’t think so.

It's not weak, but the BHP is an old design, with small parts, with a comparitively light slide. It holds up fine to thousands of rounds of standard pressure 9mm -- but even there is not nearly as durable as any number of more modern designs, which are overbuilt to a degree the Hi Power is not. When you put +P ammo into the gun, you are feeding very hot ammo into a design that is less robustly built than many other 9mms, and the result is greatly accelerated wear. Again, some premier gunsmiths, like the late Jim Garthwaite or Bill Laughridge at Cylinder & Slide assert that even a few magazines worth of +P will leave noticeable wear on the locking lugs.

Interestingly, Laughridge has commented that "...many pistolsmiths consider the Browning's parts comparatively soft in virtually every incarnation of the gun," so maybe SA has improved the metallurgy of the SA-35 and the steel is better hardened and more durable.
 
Interestingly, Laughridge has commented that "...many pistolsmiths consider the Browning's parts comparatively soft in virtually every incarnation of the gun," so maybe SA has improved the metallurgy of the SA-35 and the steel is better hardened and more durable.

One can hope. I once read that there was little point in conventional accurizing of the FN because it was soft and would soon wear out of a tight fit. But as a Canadian shooter pointed out, "service pistol" there MEANT service pistol, no modifications at all, not even "whipping the grip with cord."

I recall an old gunzine picture of a BHP dressed up with full profile compensator, welded beavertail, adjustable sights, adjusted trigger, etc. But the shop had to back up and say not to shoot it with major power factor overloads.
 
Early 1911s slide metallurgy was soft, too. Or was it brittle? I can't recall. And, let's remember, polymer is soft. :D I wonder which would break first, a BHP or a Ruger P89?
 
Early 1911s slide metallurgy was soft, too. Or was it brittle? I can't recall. And, let's remember, polymer is soft. :D I wonder which would break first, a BHP or a Ruger P89?
Yes, polymer is soft. But polymer is also not used on any of the wear points, like locking surfaces, slide rails, etc. That's where the softness becomes a durability issue.
 
My '87 Hi Power had a squib bulge the barrel. The only thing that needed replacing was the barrel. I thought that was pretty impressive.
 
My initial thoughts were that this had to be a Turkish sourced pistol but this report seems to indicate semi reliable info that the frames and slides are forged and CNC machined in house at SA. All small parts are milled rather than MIM. Starting to look like a really cool pistol IMO.


 
My initial thoughts were that this had to be a Turkish sourced pistol but this report seems to indicate semi reliable info that the frames and slides are forged and CNC machined in house at SA. All small parts are milled rather than MIM. Starting to look like a really cool pistol IMO.




In watching the video, Hilton responds to a question about the machinery being used to produce frames and slides by saying he does not believe SA is using someone else’s. He follows up with the fact that the old (FN) equipment is worn out. He may believe they are forging their own parts but I feel he knows better and is mum on the origin topic in order to remain an industry insider like everyone else.
 
I had the chance to have a look at one in the flesh today, received a few of them. The fit is very good and the trigger break was nice and crisp. The pull itself feels just like a Hi Power, but no mag disconnect to worry about. :) The safety has a nice click on and off, easier (more natural) than previous HPs and clones. I like the ledged rear sight, has a nice aperture. I'm not in love with the parkerized color, but it's a lot better in the flesh than the photos. The only thing I'll change is the front sight to a fiber optic, but other than that...I'm rather impressed.
 
this report seems to indicate semi reliable info that the frames and slides are forged and CNC machined in house at SA. All small parts are milled rather than MIM. Starting to look like a really cool pistol IMO.
Thanks for posting that video. You can usually take what Hilton says to the bank.

Happy to hear at SA has apparently addressed most of the weaknesses of the original P-35...slide, trigger, sights, thumb safety. It also makes complete sense that they wouldn't use MIM parts due to the lack of economy of mass production.

It was also interesting to hear him reference the soft slides of the previous production P-35 and how Bruce Gray rounded off the sharp points on the thumb safety. I'd heard the story from Bruce's side and hadn't been aware that he was referring to Hilton's P-35
 
In watching the video, Hilton responds to a question about the machinery being used to produce frames and slides by saying he does not believe SA is using someone else’s. He follows up with the fact that the old (FN) equipment is worn out. He may believe they are forging their own parts but I feel he knows better and is mum on the origin topic in order to remain an industry insider like everyone else.
Yeah. I figure it’s likely that IF SA is doing machining in house, they are likely starting with forged blanks sourced from Turkey. But I have no problem with that. If they are CNC milling stuff in house that’s a huge plus in my book. Also the lack of MIM is a bonus.
 
I would think that if Springfield was doing it all in house they would be showing pictures of their forgings etc.

When somebody is proud of what they are making, they usually advertise it. A Sony camera with a Zeiss lens, a Cabela's scope with meopta stamped on it. A phone with gorilla. A car with a Bose or Harmon kardon stereo system.... Less so when it is a random lowest bidder supplying the part.

Now, that said, I have no problem with them sourcing the forgings from turkey, china, Slovakia, or wherever. Heck, the whole gun can be manufactured in Iran if the price is right, the quality is there, and there is good support stateside if needed. But I recognize that not everybody is that way.
 
Yeah. I figure it’s likely that IF SA is doing machining in house, they are likely starting with forged blanks sourced from Turkey. But I have no problem with that. If they are CNC milling stuff in house that’s a huge plus in my book. Also the lack of MIM is a bonus.

It really does make you wonder where the raw forgings are coming from. I think it's unlikely that it's Girsan/Tisas given that EAA is making Hi-Power clones sourced from those companies and is currently arguing with Springfield Armory about their advertising. Seems unlikely that they're all coming from the same factory.

But the price point really argues against it being all US-made from scratch.
 
Like so many others I have a bad case of "wants" for one of these. So have been watching the one auction. Price is dropping daily which is good. Last I checked a few for $1300 with no CC fee and one that was going for 1K. At this rate they should soon be there at MSRP and soon after that more locals will be able to lay hands on one that sell for less. :):):)
 
https://www.recoilweb.com/review-springfield-armory-sa-35-the-modern-browning-hi-power-171049.html
"Springfield Armory didn’t just take old machine drawings and plug them into a CNC. They started with the blueprints as a rough guideline to bring the Browning Hi-Power to modern times. We’ve made an advance or two in metallurgy in the last century, and Springfield Armory certainly took full advantage. Just as with their 1911s, Springfield starts with raw forgings for SA-35 slides and frames to maximize strength and durability. Then, the slides, frames, barrels, as well as nearly all the small parts and pieces are precision CNC’d and then heat-treated with present-day methods."

The above is an excerpt from Recoilweb.com. Theoretically, the forged blanks could be coming from anywhere or even multiple sources of supply. Often, the actual provider(s) is/are proprietary. This apparently was different from the "Imbel" days of Springfield as those particular frames were probably completed in Brazil back then, causing the frames to be marked made in Brazil. Perhaps more than just the frames were completed in Brazil back then. Maybe, someday, we'll get a Springfield-Armory photo of metal being removed by a CNC machine located in Geneseo IL, of an SA-35. It would likely help Springfield-Armory (if true). I suppose unless someone has a picture of a crate/box/pallet/shipping container coming in from Turkey, arriving at Springfield-Armory, we'll never get much "proof".

For example, here's one company I'd never heard of which merely provides forgings and is located in the same state as Springfield-Armory:
https://www.anchorharvey.com/industries/

But really, in company in the world could be providing raw forgings to Springfield and depending on competition, demand, sourcing, Springfield could have set up two or more companies if that makes sense from a procurement standpoint. Other times, it could make sense to go with only one source for better pricing and these sources could be overseas.

Here's another source:
https://presrite.com/contact-us/
 
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https://www.recoilweb.com/review-springfield-armory-sa-35-the-modern-browning-hi-power-171049.html
"Springfield Armory didn’t just take old machine drawings and plug them into a CNC. They started with the blueprints as a rough guideline to bring the Browning Hi-Power to modern times. We’ve made an advance or two in metallurgy in the last century, and Springfield Armory certainly took full advantage. Just as with their 1911s, Springfield starts with raw forgings for SA-35 slides and frames to maximize strength and durability. Then, the slides, frames, barrels, as well as nearly all the small parts and pieces are precision CNC’d and then heat-treated with present-day methods."

The above is an excerpt from Recoilweb.com. Theoretically, the forged blanks could be coming from anywhere or even multiple sources of supply. Often, the actual provider(s) is/are proprietary. This apparently was different from the "Imbel" days of Springfield as those particular frames were probably completed in Brazil back then, causing the frames to be marked made in Brazil. Perhaps more than just the frames were completed in Brazil back then. Maybe, someday, we'll get a Springfield-Armory photo of metal being removed by a CNC machine located in Geneseo IL, of an SA-35. It would likely help Springfield-Armory (if true). I suppose unless someone has a picture of a crate/box/pallet/shipping container coming in from Turkey, arriving at Springfield-Armory, we'll never get much "proof".

For example, here's one company I'd never heard of which merely provides forgings and is located in the same state as Springfield-Armory:
https://www.anchorharvey.com/industries/

But really, in company in the world could be providing raw forgings to Springfield and depending on competition, demand, sourcing, Springfield could have set up two or more companies if that makes sense from a procurement standpoint. Other times, it could make sense to go with only one source for better pricing and these sources could be overseas.

Here's another source:
https://presrite.com/contact-us/

I'd mainly like to know where they're not coming from, to be honest. As long as it's not Turkey, China, or one of the other countries I consider to be hostile to the U.S. and possessing poor human rights records, I don't much care where the forgings are from, although if they're American that's pretty great. Turkey was my biggest concern because they're a known Hi-Power clone source.
 
For example, here's one company I'd never heard of which merely provides forgings and is located in the same state as Springfield-Armory:
https://www.anchorharvey.com/industries/

/


Anchor Harvey is a major provider of aluminum forging in the AR world. It’s almost unusual to not see their forge marks on at least several AR upper receivers in any given store that has AR’s in stock.

Im not saying they are/are not supplying SA 35 forgings. But it’s interesting that a major player like AH is in the same state.
 
Yes but Les Baer, Rock River Arms, and Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT) were all in the same State as well and nobody believes any of these are forging SA’s parts. 2 of the 3 have jumped boarders in recent years thanks to unfriendly conditions in Illinois.
 
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Yes but Les Baer, Rock River Arms, and Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT) were all in the same State as well and nobody believes any of these are forging SA’s parts. 2 of the 3 have jumped boarders in recent years thanks to unfriendly conditions in Illinois.

Armalite is also in Illinois
 
Here's more info for one's thoughts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production
Here's a list of steel-producing countries. Any one of these countries could supply the steel; then another country could "stamp out" the forgings; finally sending the forged frame and slide blanks to Springfield-Armory to do the CNCing (if indeed Springfield Armory is doing the CNCing). All this is just my speculation.

With mere phone calls, emails, faxes, Springfield Armory could have steel from Japan sent to a forging house, instead of from Ukraine, or redirect steel to a different forging house, if the first-choice forging house is having some type of problem (covid, employees, power outages). Perhaps Springfield-Armory doesn't control the steel source at all, and let's the forging house get its own steel. Then there's the iron ore, which can start the entire chain:
https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/top-iron-ore-producing-countries/

Top countries for iron ore: Austrailia, Brazil, China, India, Russia.

At a certain point, a company limits its concern as to where and to what extent other countries are involved in a product.
 
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