The Irony of Shotgun designs

elktrout said:

the Browning Auto 5 proved tough enough for the boats, dirt, water, and mud of water fowling.

Click to expand...

Anecdote Alert: A coworker was an avid duck hunter, making regular pilgrimages to Arkansas for the purpose.
Every time he or one of his group bought a new Browning - they seemed to change guns awful frequently - he would take it to their regular gunsmith who would cut the butt at an angle to give a lot of pitch down for easy pointing at decoying ducks dropping down.

I have shot them all from bolt actions to semi-autos and right now my favorite is the Beretta 686. They are reasonably proportioned, quick to use, and (for me) shoot like a dream. The first week I had mine I went 25/25 on the trap range. I repeat that from time to time, but that is always a good way to start a relationship with a shotgun. Like others have said, I kind of like them all. I have an old SxS that I won at a pigeon shoot when I was a boy. I still take it out once or twice a year just for fun. I think shooting what you like and having fun are more important than looks!

bolt action rifled barrel shot guns are super common in my area. lots of hunters use them because we have a major road that divides a "rifle zone' and a 'shotgun only" zone.

lots and lots of deer out on the flats to be had. and a rifled slug gun is about the perfect tool out there IMO, since you can't even use a pistol caliber carbine legally in those areas although I hear they're working on legislation to change that.

Virginian said:

Like and shoot what you like and don't worry about what anyone else thinks or does

Click to expand...

Cvans said:

This ought to be displayed in every gun shop.

Click to expand...

While I agree with those statements, I don't think many shops would go for it.
It would be similar to posting a menu of a balanced and healthy diet plan (common sense) at your
local fast food joint!

JT

The purpose of a gun shop is to sell you what they have, not what you want or need.
They will, of course, pitch it to sound like that what they have IS what you need.

Fortunately most of the dealers I work with will order what is wanted. IF they can get it. The other issue is if it gets here and it fits you like your grandmother's underwear then your stuck with it.

I haven't had much shooting time with a SXS, but have shot or occasionally.

I've shot a fair number of different guns though, and of all the guns I've tried, the Remington 870 fits me best. Tied I think, is a sears Zoli O/U a friend has. That o/u poits and feels right for me. But the 870 suffices and I'm a decent shot with it. The fact that my 870 is an express, beater with little finish left is a plus. Folks see you and think who is this rube, then you start breaking clays and their jaws drop.

Cvans said:

FThe other issue is if it gets here and it fits you like your grandmother's underwear then your stuck with it.

Click to expand...

That's why I'm on a first-name basis with local Benelli importer, having bought a bunch of stocks, recoil pads, angle shims and small parts for my impulse purchase shotguns over the years. I can even use their in-house shop myself nowadays, for fitting whatever I bought and they just bill me for the parts afterwards.

Things can be MADE to fit, you know...

I had someway shifted my Trap stance and was suddenly getting unpleasant recoil to the cheek. I took myself and my Trap gun to a reputable gun fitter and he shifted stuff around. Got the recoil off my face but he also got my shot off the targets. I could not accommodate so I went to my local gunsmith who took about half the changes out and had me back breaking targets in reasonable comfort.

Jim Watson said:

Anecdote Alert: A coworker was an avid duck hunter, making regular pilgrimages to Arkansas for the purpose.
Every time he or one of his group bought a new Browning - they seemed to change guns awful frequently - he would take it to their regular gunsmith who would cut the butt at an angle to give a lot of pitch down for easy pointing at decoying ducks dropping down.

Click to expand...

Were they sitting in the 'pagoda' of a Japanese battleship or what? Cupping ducks are usually at the same height you are. if they are much lower, you're water swatting. Downward pitch would make shooting at ducks in the air (more than head height) painful, as all the recoil would be concentrated in the top half of the butt.

Bazoo said:

Tied I think, is a sears Zoli O/U a friend has.

Click to expand...

Angelo or Antonio?

entropy said:

Angelo or Antonio?

Click to expand...

Antonio I looked up the model at the time, and one could be had for very reasonable. Around $450 I think 10 years ago.

Those are the better ones.

gobsauce said:

I was gonna say, hardly anyone references these kind of shotguns:
View attachment 1035341 View attachment 1035342

Apparently, some hunters like them. Guess they just never took off.

Click to expand...

Wow, I would like to have a bolt action 12ga but I don't think I've ever seen one locally here in OKC.

270OKIE said:

Wow, I would like to have a bolt action 12ga but I don't think I've ever seen one locally here in OKC.

Click to expand...

I remember the day I saw it. "Alan, what the hell is that?"

"For 100$, it's yours. "

And they had two! My buddy got a matching one.

I started with my great granddaddy's SXS 20 ga back in 1970 when I was 12. The gun was old, and with Damascus barrels and was really unsafe to use. By the time I was 16 I'd saved enough to buy my own shotgun and chose a Savage/Fox SXS in 12 ga. I kept that gun 10 years until 1984 and it was truly junk. It literally spent more time in gun shops being repaired than in my home during those 10 years.

I've tried a few other SXS's and they all left me disappointed. While I still prefer the looks and balance of a SXS I've learned that good ones aren't cheap, and cheap ones aren't good. And I don't shoot a shotgun enough to justify the expense of a good one.

I respect pumps. They can be reliable and other than high end O/U shotguns are the most durable. Durability and reliability aren't the same thing however. If I were seeking one gun to use as a survival gun in harsh conditions it would be a pump.

But for sporting uses and even most Self Defense situations I prefer a quality semi-auto. Most sporting uses of a shotgun involve 2-3 quick shots at moving game or targets. Pumps CAN be used, but learning to shoot one fast isn't a skill everyone can master. In theory pumps are a bit more reliable than semi's, but once human error is accounted for in the real world you'll find semi's prove to be more reliable.

But price is also a factor. A decent quality pump gun will cost at least 1/2 what a semi-auto costs and is a fraction what a quality double will cost. They are certainly the value leader in terms of what you get vs cost.

Doubles certainly have their place. The O/U's are the queen's of competition shooting, and nothing is classier than a SXS for hunting. But I can get an equal quality semi for about 1/4 the cost of a double. If wing shooting and clays were more important to me I'd invest in one. But for the money I'm sold on a semi-auto shotgun.

Single shots and bolt guns have their place, especially for those on a tight budget. But neither type lends itself to fast shooting.

I have them all but for a bolt, and several of each. For clays, I shoot O/U almost exclusively, though my Browning Double Auto comes out from time to time. For upland birds, nothing but SxS, light, splinter forearm/straight grip, fixed chokes - IC/M or IC/IM. For waterfowl, a gasser semi in 3” is my preference, and durability is the key. For home and camp defense, I like a pump gun.

Good semis can be made reasonably inexpensively. A case can be made that this is also true for pumps. Decent doubles cannot be made cheap. Better to own a semi or
pump that you can rely on than to buy a cheap double.

jmr40 said:

While I still prefer the looks and balance of a SXS I've learned that good ones aren't cheap, and cheap ones aren't good.

Click to expand...

I agree.

jmr40 said:

But for sporting uses and even most Self Defense situations I prefer a quality semi-auto.

Click to expand...

For me it’s SD and hunting.

jmr40 said:

In theory pumps are a bit more reliable than semi's, but once human error is accounted for in the real world you'll

Click to expand...

I agree based on personal experience. And there are very very few people in my league when it comes to short stroking a pump.

jmr40 said:

Doubles certainly have their place. The O/U's are the queen's of competition shooting, and nothing is classier than a SXS for hunting. But I can get an equal quality semi for about 1/4 the cost of a double.

Click to expand...

I have semi’s for the same reason. I’d also love to own a SxS but for to me the least expensive ones run over $2K new.

jmr40 said:

While I still prefer the looks and balance of a SXS I've learned that good ones aren't cheap, and cheap ones aren't good.

Click to expand...

So true. A good double (in terms of balance, finish, workmanship, material and durability) is necessarily going to cost a couple grand or so. Buying used is the best way to get one that's affordable for many of us.

I had a nice little Spanish 20 SxS I used for grouse years ago. I sold it to a buddy and regret it.