Top Five Cartridges for Medium sized to Large Game?

Med-size game 270wsm large game 300wsm the only two i need !!!

When I first bought a deer rifle the minimum necessary for large game was .30-06. And by large, it was elk or bigger. Add "dangerous" to the description and the big bores came out, usually with the word Magnum attached.

A friend chose the 8mm Remington Magnum back in those days, and you had better set yourself for that shot if you pulled the trigger. It would literally anchor a whitetail on the spot - even poorly placed. Moose, grizzly, elk, brown bear, caribou were considered North American large game then. And those who hunted them would consider the African Big Five some time in their life, with the same rifle. Bespoke is a tad pricey. So magnums were the thing.

.30-06 was respected, but not enough gun for dangerous game, and that is a common characteristic with size. Plenty for whitetail in my experience, it's all I had, now I use .30-30, 6.8SPC or 5.56 at short range from a 10.5 Pistol. Of late I'm building a .375 SOCOM, albeit barrels, bolts, and ammo are rare. Its basically .30-30 performance in a AR15, which is pretty good, as that is usually AR10 territory.

Nothing fancy here.

54 cal. CVA traditional muzzleloader
223
Two 7mm-08's
30-06

I’ll jump on the .300wm band wagon. Depending on the game you can load up anything from a screaming fast 125gr to a heavy hitting 220gr so you have pretty much all the game in North America bigger than a fox covered.
https://www.nosler.com/300-winchester-magnum

30-30, .308, 30-06, .270, .35 Rem.

They are old and from a simpler time when flashy magazine articles didn't sell cartridges. They work and will continue to do so. They also are available at nearly every big box store and hardware store (when ammo is available), vs. some of the newer boutique cartridges.

H&Hhunter said:

No argument here, but it occurred to me after reading your post. Can’t the same be said for any .308 diameter round from about .30-06 up to .300 RUM?

And using your logic there are a plethora of diameters that the same can be said.

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Not quite. I don’t think the 06 pushes a 128gr out to 3400fps or delivers a 220gr with 5100j of energy.

H&Hhunter said:

True however it’s close enough on game that it doesn’t matter. A quality 220 Gr bullet from an 06 will penetrate a big bear length wise, and 130 Gr .30 cal bullet at 3100 FPS will do anything one at 3400 will.

While there is a difference on paper, in the field on game it simply doesn’t matter that much.

My point being the old saw about loading a .300 WM up or down to suit your needs can be said about multiple callers and rounds. The key is to be a hand loader.

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Agreed. I remember decades ago the same being said about 30-06. The old timers said if you could only have one that was the choice because of the variety of (then) available factory ammo.
The real reason I am stuck on 300wm is that for some reason in my past I have always wanted a BAR, and I got the chance to get one in 300 dirt cheap because of constant "unfixable" FTE and FTF failures. I told the guy to clean the gas cylinder and port but he was so frustrated he just wanted to dump the gun so nice guy that I am I helped him out. After a thorough cleaning and a new buffer it cycled flawlessly and I had my BAR with a Leopold scope and hard case for under $300.

My son and I took our first elk on Sunday. He had a 300 WM using 165g Barnes TTSX and mine was the trusty old 30-06 using 180g Partitions. Shots were about 300 yards across a canyon and both nearly instant kills. I wouldn't have dared script it to be any better.

H&Hhunter said:

True however it’s close enough on game that it doesn’t matter. A quality 220 Gr bullet from an 06 will penetrate a big bear length wise, and 130 Gr .30 cal bullet at 3100 FPS will do anything one at 3400 will.

While there is a difference on paper, in the field on game it simply doesn’t matter that much.

My point being the old saw about loading a .300 WM up or down to suit your needs can be said about multiple calibers and rounds. The key is to be a hand loader.

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I'd think the flatter trajectory would make making the hit easier...

While I hear and agree to a point with what you're saying, when it comes to trajectory...velocity still counts. In your example with the .308 220 grain, 30-06 vs .300WM there's just about a 200FPS difference between the two.

Chuck R. said:

I'd think the flatter trajectory would make making the hit easier...

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I was just having this discussion/argument with my son. In our case comparing his load for 300 WM vs. my "worthless" 30-06. Let's assume that at 6 inches of drop you should probably start compensating for your drop, either by scope adjustment or holdover. When you compare the ballistics tables for our loads the 30-06 hits that threshold at about 285 yards while his 300 does at about 300 yards so the window of advantage is only around 15 yards. Over 300 yards, BOTH of us are making adjustments. In addition, trajectory adjustments have never been easier with today's rangefinders and systems such as Leupold's CDS dial. Considering all of that, the advantage of a fast round comes much more down to energy than trajectory.

Eagle103 said:

I was just having this discussion/argument with my son. In our case comparing his load for 300 WM vs. my "worthless" 30-06. Let's assume that at 6 inches of drop you should probably start compensating for your drop, either by scope adjustment or holdover. When you compare the ballistics tables for our loads the 30-06 hits that threshold at about 285 yards while his 300 does at about 300 yards so the window of advantage is only around 15 yards. Over 300 yards, BOTH of us are making adjustments. In addition, trajectory adjustments have never been easier with today's rangefinders and systems such as Leupold's CDS dial. Considering all of that, the advantage of a fast round comes much more down to energy than trajectory.

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I agree, but while I'm a huge fan of Strelok, CDS and mil reticles, I believe there are situations when there's not enough time to make the calculations and the flatter trajectory or the old MPBR style of sighting in pays off. For instance my recent antelope hunt in WY, there was no time to dial as he was moving. I went with an initial lazed distance than an "guestimate" of a holdover based on the distanced he'd covered angling away. The buck managed to cover about 75 yds between initial spotting and when I made the shot.

I'd run the tables myself, but this should suffice for a theoretical discussion. Chuck Hawks for instance calculates MPBR of both as for a 6" kill zone (3" of drop, the most I've ever used personally was an 8" zone for elk, giving 4" of drop):

Cartridge (Wb@MV) Bullet BC 100 yds. 200 yds. MRT@yds. MPBR (yds.)

30-06 (180 Sp at 2700) .483 +2.7" +1.5" 3"@125 269

.300 WM. (180 Sp at 3070) .483 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 303

So at least by his tables a 34yd delta.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm

So IF I had a .300WM and subscribed to the MPBR way of doing things, no hold over or dialing in for me at 300yds.

Again I agree that the modern reticles, ballistic software etc. have negated the need for the flatter shooting cartridges (somewhat), there's still times when a tighter trajectory does have an advantage.

H&Hhunter said:

That would be a slight theoretical advantage past about 300 yards. However with modern optics and stadia lines and dials the velocity for flatter trajectory schtick has kind of become obsolete. It has in my world anyway. I can bang steel at 600 yards just as easy with a .308 as I can with .300 Dak with a dial installed.

Not to mention the critters and the style of hunting I’d be doing with a 220 Gr round out of an 06 or a .300 WM would not require long range shots. If I was using 220 Gr bullets in a .30 cal it’d be for back up shooting on North American DG or possibly for hunting big critters in thick cover where the shots are close. With premium controlled expansion bullets there is not really any reason to use anything heavier than a 180 Gr bullet in a .30 cal unless you’re pushing the performance limits like a least one professional AK brown bear guide does using his .30-06 as a back up gun on the Alaskan Peninsula he shoots 220 Gr partitions I think.

The other reason to go heavier than 180 gr is to shoot optimized heavy and long bullets for extreme range and in a .30 cal and for that you’ll need a 1 in 9 twist rate like is done on the .300 PRC. Most factory 06 and .300 WM use a 1 in 11 twist which will not stabilize most bullets heavier than 200 gr bullets anyway.

****NOTE******
(Eagle103 and I were posting at the same time, so there is a lot of overlap in our posts.)

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I get what you're saying, but just to amplfy a point, which one has less wind drift?

I shoot distance with a couple guys regularly as I have targets out to 760yds on my place. Between us; .308Win 168, 6.5C 143, and my 6mm SLR 105, I use about 1/2 the windage the .308, and about 2/3rds of the 6.5. We're running close to the same BCs, but I'm running at 3170 fps.

I can (and do) miss wind calls and manage to hit steel. The higher velocity makes for a more forgiving cartridge when it comes to human error.

Just another advantage of getting there quicker. Then there's also the slight advantage that the added velocity provides in energy and more reliable expansion.

Done nitpicking now...

Chuck R. said:

I agree, but while I'm a huge fan of Strelok, CDS and mil reticles, I believe there are situations when there's not enough time to make the calculations and the flatter trajectory or the old MPBR style of sighting in pays off. For instance my recent antelope hunt in WY, there was no time to dial as he was moving. I went with an initial lazed distance than an "guestimate" of a holdover based on the distanced he'd covered angling away. The buck managed to cover about 75 yds between initial spotting and when I made the shot.

I'd run the tables myself, but this should suffice for a theoretical discussion. Chuck Hawks for instance calculates MPBR of both as for a 6" kill zone (3" of drop, the most I've ever used personally was an 8" zone for elk, giving 4" of drop):

Cartridge (Wb@MV) Bullet BC 100 yds. 200 yds. MRT@yds. MPBR (yds.)

30-06 (180 Sp at 2700) .483 +2.7" +1.5" 3"@125 269

.300 WM. (180 Sp at 3070) .483 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 303

So at least by his tables a 34yd delta.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm

So IF I had a .300WM and subscribed to the MPBR way of doing things, no hold over or dialing in for me at 300yds.

Again I agree that the modern reticles, ballistic software etc. have negated the need for the flatter shooting cartridges (somewhat), there's still times when a tighter trajectory does have an advantage.

Click to expand...

For sure. Any advantage is still an advantage. The primary negative might be the average shooters ability to shoot the flatter cartridge as well as a lesser recoiling one. Another point, the 34yd delta Chuck Hawks references has the velocity spread between the 30-06 and 300 WM at about 100 fps more than it was in our case. Also, my son's 300WM B.C. was a bit lower than mine.

I'm not a fan of MPBR either. Just doesn't seem like a good idea to have your intended impact zone varying to such a degree.

What is my choices:

7.62x39 - white tail
6.8 SPC II - white tail, mulies, antelope
7mm08 - white tail, mulies, antelope, elk
280ai - mulies, elk, bear, moose
35 Whelen - mulies, elk, bear, moose

If I had to do it all with one 280ai hands down.

.223, 243, 7-08, 7 MM mag, 30-06. Those overlap. I don't see a need for anything else. Despite what others think, I agree with the Alaska DNR that the 30-06 is plenty for anything in North America. Those are my picks. I am not a fan of any of the new cartridges for hunting although they may be great. If it ain't broke.

Ok, here goes my old school list:

• Timber hunting elk: Open sight .45-70 govt, Hornady 325 grn
• Open country elk: .300 Weatherby, 180 Nosler AB
• Antelope: .257 Weatherby, 110 grain AB
• Mule Deer: .270 Win, 145 Hornady ELD-X
• Mountain Goat: 7mm Rem Mag, 175 Nosler Partition

Of course, any of these will work on just about anything in North America.

Fun to have options to try, right?

.223/5.56 if I need to use it for absolute minimal recoil while still having some range. Deer and smaller.
6.8 SPC II - most N.A. game out to 300, some out to 400. Handloads, specific bullet choices for different game. With the right bullets and under the right conditions, fully capable of elk, but would not deliberately go after anything larger with it.
.357 lever rifle for a tiny light weight carbine with minimal recoil at modest ranges (unscoped), and ammo matching my revolver. Usually the rifle I carry when not actively hunting, but want a rifle that shoots something larger than .22. Deer and smaller.
.243 - deer out to about 300 with confidence, smaller creatures somewhat further, elk (cow or spike) about 200 and in with judicious shot placement, proper bullets for the game, and such
.270 Winchester - anything in North America, with proper bullet/velocity choices.

In my 40 years of hunting, I've used the following (besides recurve and compound bows and pistols) to kill whitetail deer:

30-30
.308
.270
.300 WinMag
7.62x39

...and a .50 caliber round ball muzzle loader.

I have been carrying a Browning BAR in .270 for the last ten years or so and find it ideal for most situations (but it seems to be getting heavier as I get older!).

There are so many ways to look at this and they all work. Here's an alternative that hasn't been posted. Let's start by saying that .308 win is widely available and perfectly capable of taking medium and large game (by North American standards). Same can be said for .30-06, but .308 win offers lower recoil. I always look for the limiting factors and to me, recoil, cost, and availability of ammo are the limiting factors. Clearly everyone is taking these factors into consideration, otherwise we would see people posting rounds like .30-378 weatherby and the like.

Next, I've stopped focusing on trajectory when thinking about the range a cartridge offers. As others have posted, laser range finders and knowledge of your cartridge's ballistics make the trajectory relatively easy to adjust for. I've started thinking about two things: wind resistance and "max ethical range." First, wind resistance because it is much easier to make a bad call on the wind speed and direction than it is to misjudge the range to the target (i.e., range finders). Max ethical range because the bullet needs to humanely kill the animal when it gets there. For big game, I'm using the minimum distance at which the cartridge will provide both 2,200 fps to ensure proper bullet expansion and at least 1,000 ft-lbs of energy.

So, with the above in mind and .308 as the base line (you can use .30-06 as the baseline and it only changes things a bit), choose from among the following depending on your needs:

6.5 mm if you want lower recoil and greater range. Go with 6.5 creed if you want available ammo or 6.5-06 if you prefer performance and will roll your own or 6.5 prc.

7 mm if you want to maximize your range and are willing to accept a little more recoil. 7mm rem mag if you want ammo availability or .280ai if you will roll your own (because it almost duplicates 7mm RM with less powder and recoil).

.30 cal magnum when you want to maximize your range and have significant "wallop" at impact ("wallop" being a combination of bullet mass, bullet diameter, and energy). Choose .300 win mag if you want ammo availability or any other .30 cal magnum that makes you happy if you will roll your own.

.375 when the critter takes more killing than the .30 cal magnum can deliver. Choose the Ruger if you are focused on performance and the H&H if you want the history. Not sure how ammo availability compares for these two.

Finally, a .35 Whelen or .338-06 if you like larger diameter bullets, are hunting within 300 yards and don't care about ammo availability.

The .338 win mag is an in-between or compromise between the .30 cal magnums and the .375s. It doesn't give the range of the .30 cal magnums and doesn't match the performance of the .375s on the biggest critters. I think others have posted this, but is there anything the .338 win mag will reliably kill that the .300 win mag won't with less recoil?

So how does this compare to what I actually have? I have .25-06, .30-06, and .300 win mag. The popularity of the 6.5s has grown so much that now I'd go with a 6.5 instead of the .25-06. I'd stick with the .30-06 over the .308 just because I like it (and I have a Garand) and there isn't that much difference. Next, I want to add a .280ai. I like the idea of the .35 whelen and the .338-06, but probably won't ever get one because they use faster powders than I already stock for reloading. Likewise, I'd probably go with .375 Ruger if ever step up to a .375 because it has more overlap with the powders I already stock.

1.) .223 I've used.
2.) 7mm-08. Would like to hunt with one. Shot several, and love the round.
3.) .30-06. I've used.
3.) 300 Win Mag. I've used.
5.) .50 M/L I've used.
Another I'd like to hunt with would be .243, but the .223 fills the niche.
I've hunted with others, the 5 above are the list I prefer.
I've hunted big game with .30-30, 7.62x54R, 7.62x39, 8mm Mauser (7.92 x57 JS), .44 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .45 ACP, 12 and 16 ga. also.
I plan on adding one of the European Rimmed rounds to that sometime in the next few years; 9.3x72R, 9.3x74R, 8x57R, 7x57R, etc., underneath two 16 ga barrels.