Winchester 231 Powder

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DMW1116

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I started reloading pistol round with CFE Pistol, but then tried 231 and like it better for what I reload right now.

I was exploring the Hodgden load data and checked charges for W231 and HP-38 and they are exactly the same for the rounds I load. Are these the same powder by chance?
 
Good to know. I heard 231 was being discontinued. Now I have a replacement. My Lyman manual says HP-38 duplicates it’s performance, but nothing about them being the same powder.
 
HP-38 is pretty common to find in my area gun shops but 231 is rarely available. Of course, many powders are rarely available now.
 
HP38 is Win 231 with a different label pasted on. Has been for the past 6-8 years...data is interchangeable. They are outstanding for light to medium hand gun loads for most any caliber. I use them for 1000 fps load or less in .32 H&R, .380 ACP, .38 super, .38 Spl & .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .41 Mag, .44 Spl and Mag, .45 Colt, .45 ACP and AP...and probably a few I've forgotten, but you get the idea. Limited to one pistol powder for all uses, except top end loads, you'd be hard to find a more versatile powder.
Best Regards, Rod
 
Rodfac said:
HP38 is Win 231 with a different label pasted on. Has been for the past 6-8 years...data is interchangeable. They are outstanding for light to medium hand gun loads for most any caliber. I use them for 1000 fps load or less in .32 H&R, .380 ACP, .38 super, .38 Spl & .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .41 Mag, .44 Spl and Mag, .45 Colt, .45 ACP and AP...and probably a few I've forgotten, but you get the idea. Limited to one pistol powder for all uses, except top end loads, you'd be hard to find a more versatile powder.
Best Regards, Rod
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This..... You can even load low velocity cast boolit loads in rifles with it.

231/HP38 and H110/296 to rule the world.
 
Steve51 said:
HP-38 is pretty common to find in my area gun shops but 231 is rarely available. Of course, many powders are rarely available now.
Click to expand...

it’s the opposite here. I have a secret place to get W231 but no HP-38 in sight.

I use it for 9mm cast and plated bullets and target loads with Hornady wadcutters in 357 magnum.

It’s noticeably more accurate in the 9mms than the CFE Pistol loads for those bullets. The full speed jacketed or solid copper bullets might be better with the CFE-P, but I haven’t tried.

The 357 target loads are amazingly accurate, matching or slightly beating the best so far from my Victory 22.

I don’t even feel the need to test different loads in my 9s. I just load the minimum charge or barely enough to make them function, though I did load some so close they ran in the summer but won’t now.
 
BKS said:
This..... You can even load low velocity cast boolit loads in rifles with it.

231/HP38 and H110/296 to rule the world.
Click to expand...

I saw that a bit ago. There are some 30-30 gallery loads I want to try with it. I’ve been using 2400 but that might need to go toward my new 357 for full power loads.
 
I always found 231 to cost $1 or more than HP-38 on the same shelf. Being as frugal as I am, I always bought HP-38.
But one of my old pistol reloading buddies will have none of that! If he can’t get 231, he ain’t reloading!
In today’s crisis, I buy which ever is available.
 
higgite said:
Some internet rumors never die. W231 apparently has more lives than a cat.
Click to expand...

Also good to know. I was digging around and found some loads that use it for 30-30 too. Full power 30-30 isn’t as fun to shoot for practice but the reduced loads for that caliber are great.
 
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HP-38/W231 were (was?) the second powder I bought/used. In '69 I bought some Bullseye and in '70 I bought W231. I still use them today (not the same bottles!). IIRC the lable/containers differ for the same powder, depending on who distributes the powder (Hodgdon or Winchester)...

I have used them in all my handgun reloads from 32ACP up to 44 Magnum. Very good performance in 38 Special and 9mm...
 
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I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve read over the years that HP-38 & W231 were the same powder so does someone have any idea why the current Speer manual treats them as separate powders in their 38 Special & 357 Magnum loads? For the bullets where both powders are listed Speer gives different starting and maximum loads which seems odd if the powders are the same.
 
daverich4 said:
I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve read over the years that HP-38 & W231 were the same powder so does someone have any idea why the current Speer manual treats them as separate powders in their 38 Special & 357 Magnum loads? For the bullets where both powders are listed Speer gives different starting and maximum loads which seems odd if the powders are the same.
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In the answers to the "are they the same?" were the answers something like "different lots of powder, different test equipment, different barrel lengths, different brass and bullet lots"?
 
mdi said:
In the answers to the "are they the same?" were the answers something like "different lots of powder, different test equipment, different barrel lengths, different brass and bullet lots"?
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I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking me. I’ve been under the impression for some time that they were exactly the same powder in different containers but Speer lists both of them as loads for the same bullet but with different starting and maximum loads. I’ve discovered since my original post that Oregon Trail has the same thing listed for some of their bullets.
 
They are both the same powder, but different lots of even the same branded powder can differ in burn rate by up to 10%. Speer probably tested both powders, and the different lots had enough variance to post both powders.
 
black mamba said:
They are both the same powder, but different lots of even the same branded powder can differ in burn rate by up to 10%. Speer probably tested both powders, and the different lots had enough variance to post both powders.
Click to expand...
If that was true they would post different loads for different lots of other powders. Different lots of Unique vary by 10% as well so they should suggest different start and max loads for that? There would be no end to it if that was the case. What if my lot of HP38 was similar to their lot of W231? How would I know that and what data should I use?
 
daverich4 said:
If that was true they would post different loads for different lots of other powders. Different lots of Unique vary by 10% as well so they should suggest different start and max loads for that? There would be no end to it if that was the case. What if my lot of HP38 was similar to their lot of W231? How would I know that and what data should I use?
Click to expand...

Not sure why you're overthinking it to such an extreme. It actually is true that different lots of powder vary, despite your skepticism.

How would you know what data to use? Maybe follow the guidance in every reloading manual ever printed and not start with max loads, but instead reduce 10% and work up from there.
 
Hodgdon has stated that they fill the 231 and the HP38 containers from the same large bin of powder.

You can probably check that out. Speer probably tested the powders at different times and got different results. I think that happens. One certainly sees different results when comparing the same powder from different test sources. I do not think the manuals that list the exact duplicate results for the 2 powders tested both and got those results. They just assigned the same numbers to both powders since they know that they are the same. Me, I only have used HP38 with HP38 data. But I think W231 and HP38 are the same powder in different containers.

I have no idea how any company determines "starting loads" for a powder. I expect they pick a range of pressure they want to work in. Maybe it has something to do with not getting stuck bullets.
 
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