Shiloh Sharps

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Steve S.

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I had the chance to take this replacement rifle to the range; l also got to review the fit/ finish in detail in the daylight - it is an exceptionally beautiful rifle.
I shot a reload that I have used for years (WW brass/ primer, 36.5 grains of IMR 3031 and a 405 grain Missouri Bullet Co. LFN). As with my previous Shiloh rifles, this rifle loved this load also. My last two five shot 100 yard groups were dead on at a 1.5 to 2” spread. I am positive that the rifle can do better but my front sight is very fuzzy looking thru my cataracts - it looks like a dust bunny to my old eyes - conclusion; a beautiful work of art that can shoot - I am very pleased!
 
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I wish the Shiloh was available for a high-powered rifle cartridge... One day I may have to get one in a reasonable chambering. A 40-75 would be ok for me. I would love one in a 300 PRC just to melt people's minds though.
Edit: pictures, man, pictures!
 
What is considered as a high-powered rifle cartridge? A .45-90 (or longer, ie, -100, -110, etc) is considered adequate for any North American game. If hunting any of the great bears, a guide with a backup repeating rifle is a safe and sound approach. Countless North American Bison, aka the Buffalo, were taken by professional hunters with the .50-90. One shot kills preferred as additional shots cost money and cut into profits.

I'm referring to cartridges loaded only with Black Powder and cast lead bullets. Will a Sharps ever be chambered in .300 WinMag or .338 Lapua, hopefully never, get a Ruger #1 if such a rifle is needed.

This is my first post and introduction to the high road, I used to compete in Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette and consider my own Shiloh #1 Sporter among the last rifles with which I will ever part ways.
 
I have a Shiloh Sharps and have a Malcolm style telescopic sight mounted on it that may be an option for you.
As far as cartridges like 300 Win mag etc the lure of the Sharp's is the old black powder cartridges of the Era. Iron sights for rhe most part as scopes of th Era may not have been that good or expensive.
 
I agree with the opine that the era BP cartridges are true thumpers - they impact with great authority albeit a more challenging trajectory than (say) any modern bottleneck .300. However, they do not lack pure horsepower on the target - no lack of confidence with downing the largest of beasts!
 
I have a Shiloh Sharps and have a Malcolm style telescopic sight mounted on it that may be an option for you.
As far as cartridges like 300 Win mag etc the lure of the Sharp's is the old black powder cartridges of the Era. Iron sights for rhe most part as scopes of th Era may not have been that good or expensive.

In addition to my MVA Soule sight & spirit level front aperture sight, there also is an MVA scope legal for scoped BPCR NRA competition. If one can't get the front sight and target reasonably in focus, a scope is certainly an option but given NRA regs, they are not a panacea.

With respect to NRA BPCR Silhouette, you're no better than your spotter. It is absolutely a team effort, whether with irons or scoped.
 
^^^^^^^^^^
If you aren't using a Hadley Eyecup, you're missing an obvious solution to light changes when at the line and the timer is running.
 
I wish the Shiloh was available for a high-powered rifle cartridge... One day I may have to get one in a reasonable chambering. A 40-75 would be ok for me. I would love one in a 300 PRC just to melt people's minds though.
Edit: pictures, man, pictures!

What are you talking about?

A Sharps can handle powerfully loaded .45-70 rounds that will drop virtually anything on Earth short or an Elephant.
 
I really appreciate the sympathy for the old black powder cartridges. They really are a tribute to our history and a commitment to the sport via tradition. I have modern single shots, and yes, they are not cantankerous. A 40-82 or a 45-90 would be a very good combination, though bullet weight doesn't require extreme velocity. I just happen to enjoy modern offerings.
Edit: at what range can you take an elk with a 45-70 using a sharps?
 
I really appreciate the sympathy for the old black powder cartridges. They really are a tribute to our history and a commitment to the sport via tradition. I have modern single shots, and yes, they are not cantankerous. A 40-82 or a 45-90 would be a very good combination, though bullet weight doesn't require extreme velocity. I just happen to enjoy modern offerings.
Edit: at what range can you take an elk with a 45-70 using a sharps?

As is often the case, the best answer is: it depends.

Are you talking straight BP and cast lead alloys or smokeless and jacket / semi-jacketed bullets. Do you have a laser rangefinder and a dope book of confirmed sight settings for a range of distances? In NRA BPCR Silhouette repeated shots at the 500 meter rams are just as important, maybe more so, than those at the 200 meter chickens. Rams are shot off of cross sticks, chickens off-hand. With the .45-70 and excellent sights dope as well as equally reliable distance estimation, confirmation, a 300 meter shot on elk or mulie sized game would not be unreasonable. In fact, keeping the bullet subsonic likely would mitigate the expected bullet drift in the transsonic turbulence. With a .45-90 or .45-100, you just might be able to stay above Mach 1 out to 300 meters, maybe even to 350 meters.

A 500gr cast lead round nose from a .45-70 carries a lot of terminal energy at 300 meters, even the ~420gr .45 flat points will smack quite hard at 300 meters.
 
As is often the case, the best answer is: it depends.

Are you talking straight BP and cast lead alloys or smokeless and jacket / semi-jacketed bullets. Do you have a laser rangefinder and a dope book of confirmed sight settings for a range of distances? In NRA BPCR Silhouette repeated shots at the 500 meter rams are just as important, maybe more so, than those at the 200 meter chickens. Rams are shot off of cross sticks, chickens off-hand. With the .45-70 and excellent sights dope as well as equally reliable distance estimation, confirmation, a 300 meter shot on elk or mulie sized game would not be unreasonable. In fact, keeping the bullet subsonic likely would mitigate the expected bullet drift in the transsonic turbulence. With a .45-90 or .45-100, you just might be able to stay above Mach 1 out to 300 meters, maybe even to 350 meters.

A 500gr cast lead round nose from a .45-70 carries a lot of terminal energy at 300 meters, even the ~420gr .45 flat points will smack quite hard at 300 meters.

I started shooting BPCs silhouette with a .45-70, then a .45-90, finally a .40-70. I shot exactly one silhouette match with my .45-100. Wasn't till adopting the .40 did I work my way into master. The recoil of the .45 550 grainers in the prone wears you down over a days match. While rams are important, it's often chickens or lack of them that wins/loses matches. Which is why the NRA changed the minimum score for master class to be a 31, so as to have to hit 1 chicken.

There's a reason why you're allowed unlimited sighters during a match (within time constraints)..the conditions, wind, light, and mirage play heck with getting solid 1st round hits with BPCRs. There's no way I'd try a shot with one at over 300 on game, and I've won quite a few silhouette, buff and long range matches with one.
 
I started shooting BPCs silhouette with a .45-70, then a .45-90, finally a .40-70. I shot exactly one silhouette match with my .45-100. Wasn't till adopting the .40 did I work my way into master. The recoil of the .45 550 grainers in the prone wears you down over a days match. While rams are important, it's often chickens or lack of them that wins/loses matches. Which is why the NRA changed the minimum score for master class to be a 31, so as to have to hit 1 chicken.

There's a reason why you're allowed unlimited sighters during a match (within time constraints)..the conditions, wind, light, and mirage play heck with getting solid 1st round hits with BPCRs. There's no way I'd try a shot with one at over 300 on game, and I've won quite a few silhouette, buff and long range matches with one.

I thank you for your answer, sir. This was also my reasoning for wanting one but in a modern caliber.
 
There's no way I'd try a shot with one at over 300 on game, and I've won quite a few silhouette, buff and long range matches with one.
Yeppers. The same principles apply to IHMSA shooting. I watched my wife tip over hundreds of 200 meter "ram" silhouettes with open-sighted 44 Magnum revolvers back in the '80s, and a good many times she tipped over 10 out of 10 of them. But here the thing about that: it made very little difference where my wife hit those steel "ram" silhouettes - she could hit them on the horn, they'd still go down, hit them on the hip or the gut, they'd still go down, they'd usually still go down even if she hit them on a leg. Once I even watched through my binoculars as my wife skipped a bullet off the ground about 20 feet in front of a "ram" - it hit him, he still went down, and my wife still gained a point.:p
Nevertheless, my wife was using either a .243 or an 7mm-08 for big game hunting back then, and she's using a 7mm Rem Mag for it nowadays. And her big game rifles have always been wearing scopes. There's no way in heck my wife, champion IHMSA "Production Revolver" shooter though she is, would ever attempt a shot at a head of big game (even 100 meters away, much less 200) with an open-sighted 44 Magnum revolver. You don't get a "point" for a gut-shot deer.:thumbdown:
 
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I thank you for your answer, sir. This was also my reasoning for wanting one but in a modern caliber.

Both my .45-100 and .40-70 (2.4" case) are "screaming" for a BPCR (over 1300 FPS with Swiss 1.5) and they still drop like a rock an pick up quite a bit of wind deflection. Minor differences in distance = inches on the target, a missed wind call can be half a pig at 300meters.

Yeppers. The same principles apply to IHMSA shooting. I watched my wife tip over hundreds of 200 meter "ram" silhouettes with open-sighted 44 Magnum revolvers back in the '80s, and a good many of times she tipped over 10 out of 10 of them. But here the thing about that: it made very little difference where my wife hit those steel "ram" silhouettes - she could hit them on the horn, they'd still go down, hit them on the hip or the gut, they'd still go down, they'd usually still go down even if she hit them on a leg. Once I even watched through my binoculars as my wife skipped a bullet off the ground about 20 feet in front of a "ram" - it hit him, he still went down, and my wife still gained a point.:p
Nevertheless, my wife was using either a .243 or an 7mm-08 for big game hunting back then, and she's using a 7mm Rem Mag for it nowadays. And her big game rifles have always been wearing scopes. There's no way in heck my wife, champion IHMSA "Production Revolver" shooter though she is, would ever attempt a shot at a head of big game (even 100 meters away, much less 200) with an open-sighted 44 Magnum revolver. You don't get a "point" for a gut-shot deer.:thumbdown:

Yup, and there's lots of times I used every available inch of plate and felt great about the hits! :D

And of course we all know we never hear/read about the long range misses or bad hits on game..it's like they never happen.
 
They make a beautiful rifle and I would love to have one someday. I always thought the original 50 caliber Buffalo cartridge would be cool. I would cast for it but I'm not crazy about using black powder. To go one step further I would love to take it on a Buffalo hunt.
 
I started shooting BPCs silhouette with a .45-70, then a .45-90, finally a .40-70. I shot exactly one silhouette match with my .45-100. Wasn't till adopting the .40 did I work my way into master. The recoil of the .45 550 grainers in the prone wears you down over a days match. While rams are important, it's often chickens or lack of them that wins/loses matches. Which is why the NRA changed the minimum score for master class to be a 31, so as to have to hit 1 chicken.

There's a reason why you're allowed unlimited sighters during a match (within time constraints)..the conditions, wind, light, and mirage play heck with getting solid 1st round hits with BPCRs. There's no way I'd try a shot with one at over 300 on game, and I've won quite a few silhouette, buff and long range matches with one.

There was a reason I detailed 300 meters for a shot at either an elk or a mulie, as we both know they're somewhat bigger than a NRA sillywet pig.
My point being, 300 meters, as determined by an accurate rangefinder, would be the far limit on an animal that size. Other than the minimal cartridges such as perhaps a .38-50 Remington-Hepburn, the larger .40s & .45s are still somewhat flat shooting. The .38's are to for that matter but terminal performance begins to fall off.

With the .38, I have center punched a few rams and had them stand there snickering at me. I shot my last BPCS match in the spring of 2009 just after my longtime spotter / squad mate retired and moved out of state. I tried teaming with others but it just wasn't the same. BTW, my .38-50 is built on a Browning BPCR with a Krieger Barrel, my Shiloh #1 spotter has a Green Mountain Barrel chambered in .40-60 Maynard (blown out .30 Krag brass).
 
There was a reason I detailed 300 meters for a shot at either an elk or a mulie, as we both know they're somewhat bigger than a NRA sillywet pig.
My point being, 300 meters, as determined by an accurate rangefinder, would be the far limit on an animal that size. Other than the minimal cartridges such as perhaps a .38-50 Remington-Hepburn, the larger .40s & .45s are still somewhat flat shooting. The .38's are to for that matter but terminal performance begins to fall off.

With the .38, I have center punched a few rams and had them stand there snickering at me. I shot my last BPCS match in the spring of 2009 just after my longtime spotter / squad mate retired and moved out of state. I tried teaming with others but it just wasn't the same. BTW, my .38-50 is built on a Browning BPCR with a Krieger Barrel, my Shiloh #1 spotter has a Green Mountain Barrel chambered in .40-60 Maynard (blown out .30 Krag brass).

I remember quite a few .38 and .35 guys leaving rams up because of a head wind off the berm that would hold the ram up. Willing to sacrifice a one now and then to achieve an easier shooting rifle. Part of the reason I stuck with the "fast" .40, I needed everything I hit to go down!

You're 110% right about the spotter/shooter team, really good ones are hard to find.
 
Speaking of a "fast .40", My Shiloh #1 Sporter (not spotter) has for a long while been configured as a .40-60 Maynard which is formed from a blown out .30-40 Krag case. It is an adequate silhouette cartridge but the MV's have always been minimal. I still have a couple hundred fire formed .40-82 cases and a new Pacific Tool finish reamer which would be sufficient to take the Maynard chamber out to the .40-82, BTW, it is the Silhouette profile and not the classic Winchester). It could be an ideal Buffalo Match, Long Range Target Rifle configuration. Kinda cool to be dreaming in this realm again.
 
Speaking of a "fast .40", My Shiloh #1 Sporter (not spotter) has for a long while been configured as a .40-60 Maynard which is formed from a blown out .30-40 Krag case. It is an adequate silhouette cartridge but the MV's have always been minimal. I still have a couple hundred fire formed .40-82 cases and a new Pacific Tool finish reamer which would be sufficient to take the Maynard chamber out to the .40-82, BTW, it is the Silhouette profile and not the classic Winchester). It could be an ideal Buffalo Match, Long Range Target Rifle configuration. Kinda cool to be dreaming in this realm again.

Something like this:

lzDdJx7l.jpg

OM4NYOGl.jpg

:D:D:D

I think a lot of guys were working on about the same thing, a ".40-65 +P". The above was designed by a couple guys I shot with at Miller around Starline .45-2.4" brass and the Paul Jones 408 grain Creedmoor bullet with all the grease grooves covered and slip fit bullets.

I borrowed and supplied the reamer to Ballard Rifle & Cartridges, while Steve Garbe was the president to have one of my 1885's chambered. Since the NRA had allowed the modified 40-65, they had to allow this also as it had the same basic modification to the case neck.

I never lost a tgt with it that I managed to put a full caliber on! Clipped edges were a different story! I never used it for longer as I already had the .45-90 and .45-100, but you're right, it's easily a 1000 yard cartridge with Swiss.

BTW, I miss it too. I'm going back, just a matter of when...the next retirement is right around the corner, which means more time for casting...
 
Something like this:

View attachment 1044711

View attachment 1044712

:D:D:D

I think a lot of guys were working on about the same thing, a ".40-65 +P". The above was designed by a couple guys I shot with at Miller around Starline .45-2.4" brass and the Paul Jones 408 grain Creedmoor bullet with all the grease grooves covered and slip fit bullets.

I borrowed and supplied the reamer to Ballard Rifle & Cartridges, while Steve Garbe was the president to have one of my 1885's chambered. Since the NRA had allowed the modified 40-65, they had to allow this also as it had the same basic modification to the case neck.

I never lost a tgt with it that I managed to put a full caliber on! Clipped edges were a different story! I never used it for longer as I already had the .45-90 and .45-100, but you're right, it's easily a 1000 yard cartridge with Swiss.

BTW, I miss it too. I'm going back, just a matter of when...the next retirement is right around the corner, which means more time for casting...


Yo Chuck R--

I presume you're still employed by the same firm as you were when last we conversed (Mexia / Cyber Shoot). Well done, SIR!

If you recall, there were several variants of the .40-82 floating around. My first effort was a disaster with a poorly designed, poorly cut chamber which was exactly a .40-65 profile above a 0.30" straight section above the case head. Everyone I've known with that chamber abandoned it within a year. Fortunately, I saved a small fortune in brass which was eventually resized and fire formed and final trimmed in the new and improved chamber, my first was cut with a borrowed reamer. I was so impressed that I had Pacific Tool cut a reamer for me that Dan T. designed.

As mentioned, the Shiloh currently wears a .40-60 Maynard barrel, a Green Mountain 14.5" twist Sharps profile. I clearly was distracted by the "mouse maulers" when I ordered the .40-82 Match reamer and a Lilja 13" twist barrel blank. I dug under the bench and among other cartridge boxes with fire formed cases, there were the 200 in .40-82 I remembered. I also have what must now be a small fortune in Paul Jones & Steve Brooks molds, all variations on a theme of Dan's designs, some grooved, some mini-grooved, some grooveless. It may be time to see this project to completion. I still a half-case of vintage 2008 Swiss 1.5, ~5K Federal Match Large Pistol Primers, and now, time and inclination.

What I don't have are small rifle primers of any variety or some of that passing fancy stuff appropriate for 77gr .223 loads. I do have plenty of 77gr .223 and 62gr 5.56 (green tip ) factory loads to keep me busy for at least all of next year. I wish my range would allow steel swingers, no way jose, strictly paper out to 300 yards at any time and the 600 - 1000 yard ranges at scheduled times.

40-82 Match Reamer.gif
 
Ya know, IF we were all still on "Shooters" I'd start an argument with Dan by telling him the neck's too short to cover the PJ mold! Base of the bullet is going to end up below the neck! :D

Man I miss those days! The experimentation some of you guys did to enhance 1800's technology was inspiring. Still remember the great debates on twist rates and whether a harder alloy has greater knock-down power on a ram than softer stuff. At least with the "mouse maulers" you weren't consumed with trying to take up space with grease cookies and cream of wheat fillers..

BTW, I no longer work for that company..left when the contracting gig became less lucrative and went back to working for .Gov, but without the uniform. Unless you call a polo shirt and 5.11 cargos a uniform:D Less $$, more stability, better benefits, but less fun.

Speaking of Mexia, what ever happened to the crazy dude with the bowling ball mortar??
 
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With the .38, I have center punched a few rams and had them stand there snickering at me.

Me, too. I started out with a .38-55. Pleasant to shoot but not reliable on rams. It got to where I was giving myself a half target in my notebook to show that I was zeroed and holding even though I didn't get the point.
I checked out .45-70 but decided I wasn't man enough, ended up with a Miroku/Badger/Browning .40-65.

Grumpy: Shiloh chambers .30-40 Krag which might be "modern" enough. Find an edition of CotW that shows the .30 Purdey and you could gain a bit. Barnes thought the .30 Purdey was just .30-40 souped up a bit for safari singles and doubles stronger than a Krag.
 
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