Using you pistol/rifle as a weapon

Status
Not open for further replies.

DustyGmt

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
3,995
Location
Green Mountains
Anybody have any good links related to the topic or can cite any particular trainers/martial artists instructors who focus on the use of a firearm as a weapon including the use of a bayonet and the muzzle of the weapon as a blunt instrument in combat. I'm familiar with some of these methods, just wondering if there are any good instructors out there with a focus on using the firearm itself (whether loaded or empty) as a useful impact weapon?
 
Well, you know, if the zombies attack, they probably won't stop and wait for you to reload, so it might be good to know how to use your weapon as a hand combat tool....:confused:
 
From practical experience gathered over a career in law enforcement (1973 - 1995) when I was there when other officers used their sidearms as a "blunt instrument" I'd advise against it for several reasons.. The first is pretty simple - yes, you can smack an opponent in the head with a sidearm - but the slightest contact with the skull will leave a bloody mess - whether you strike hard or soft... it looks like you murdered the guy since scalp wounds tend to bleed a lot -even minor ones.. Secondly, any head strike with a firearm is deadly force - whether that's what you intended or not... it's still deadly force and will be judged afterwards in that context. Lastly, it's simply very bad tactics (and was prohibited by every agency that I knew of during my career) since you have to get entirely too close to use a handgun as a club... and you're generally facing an opponent that would love to get his (or her) hands on your weapon...

I was present one day when an officer was receiving first aid for a laceration to his forehead in the aftermath of a heated struggle where several officers were subduing a violent offender... and asked the usual "What happened"... and learned nothing... Later on I was told that the officer's partner, in the heat of the moment, did use his revolver as a striking implement ... and the wounded officer got hit on the backstroke by his own partner... Not the recommended way to go about things - but years ago - it did happen...
 
I took one class where we practiced shooting at "bad breath" distance, using life-size silhouette targets on cardboard backers. IIRC, the drill was to shoot with your weak arm up guarding your face and your strong arm at your side with the forearm parallel to the ground. Then you emptied the magazine into center-mass of the silhouette, and when the magazine was empty, you brought your weak hand across for a two-handed grip and punched the muzzle of your pistol into the chest of the silhouette, knocking the target frame over.

I wasn't sure how the opponent was supposed to still be standing after absorbing 10 rounds of 9mm at point-blank range, but if he was, I guess the chest punch made sense. Maybe.
 
I suppose if the gun is empty, you don't have any chance of reloading it, and you don't have anything else better on your person to use as a weapon, you might as well whale away.

If the gun is still loaded, then using it as a contact weapon can damage it, jam it, activate or deactivate controls unintentionally, cause it to discharge unintentionally, make it more accessible to the attacker, increase the likelihood of dropping it, or injure your hand.

Also, if, while it is still loaded, you use the gun as a contact weapon and cause serious injury or death (i.e. exert deadly force with it) you could really complicate a claim of self-defense by making it very difficult to answer the following questions:

1. Did you believe that deadly force was justified at the time? (You have to answer yes to this or you'll be admitting that you used deadly force without believing it was justified at the time which is, of course, a very serious crime. Remember that your reasonable belief that deadly force was justified at the time is a factor in whether it was or wasn't justified.)

2. Then why didn't you just shoot the person? (Now you have to come up with some plausible reason that also plays well to the jury to explain why you felt beating the person to death was preferable to shooting them WITHOUT ever implying that you had no intention of using deadly force. Good luck with that. If in the course of that explanation you admit or imply that you didn't mean to use deadly force, see #1.)

You can claim that it was an accident that they were hurt/killed, but this is a strategy you should only use once you've realized you have no chance of a valid self-defense claim and you're trying to plead guilty to a lesser crime.
 
I have full understanding that the scenarios in which it would be appropriate or necessary to use your firearm in such a manor are very limited, especially outside of a LEO/MIL context, it's just another topic of interest, however remote the likelihood you'd ever use your firearm as an impact weapon.

I watched a video where a guy was using his AR like a bow staff and I believe he explained it in the context of "your gun is empty and you're still fighting or your gun has some sort of catastrophic failure and you need to use your rifle as a club".
 
I have full understanding that the scenarios in which it would be appropriate or necessary to use your firearm in such a manor are very limited, especially outside of a LEO/MIL context, it's just another topic of interest, however remote the likelihood you'd ever use your firearm as an impact weapon.

I watched a video where a guy was using his AR like a bow staff and I believe he explained it in the context of "your gun is empty and you're still fighting or your gun has some sort of catastrophic failure and you need to use your rifle as a club".
You got a link?

It wasn't this guy, was it?
 
Anybody have any good links related to the topic or can cite any particular trainers/martial artists instructors who focus on the use of a firearm as a weapon including the use of a bayonet and the muzzle of the weapon as a blunt instrument in combat. I'm familiar with some of these methods, just wondering if there are any good instructors out there with a focus on using the firearm itself (whether loaded or empty) as a useful impact weapon?
It could be useful knowledge if you routinely carry a 1911 for instance.
 
The question was about trainers who "focus on the use of a bayonet and the muzzle of a firearm as a blunt instrument in combat" and use of a
firearm as.an impact weapon.

A bayonet is not a blunt instrument, and the muzzle is not among the likely blunt instruments that one would logically choose for defensive fighting

While any object might be brought into play as a last resort in lawful self defense, post #4 tells us that such a tactic is generally prohibited in law enforcement; post #5 provides a few reasons why it is not a good idea; and post #7 touches on some complications that could arise in a defense of justification.

This is really not fertile ground for meaningful discussion here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top