How well made were Llama semi-autos?.....

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When my father in law passed thirty years ago I found three pistols in his study locked in a bottom drawer of his desk. An RG .38 Special, an Arminius .38 Special and a Llama Model III .380. All had the original box and the Gibson Discount Store price tags hanging from the trigger guard. He bought these when Carter was president and the whispers of gun control where on the news.

I ended up selling the two revolvers for, if I remember right, $100 total and kept the Llama with the $75 price tag. During the 10 years I had it I probably fired 500 - 600 rounds through it w/o a problem. I gave it to my brother when he moved to a sketchy part of Austin and he probably put 1000 rounds through it in the 25 years he had it. When my brother died in his home office (heart attack) he wasn't found for four days. During that time someone stole every thing of value from his home including his firearms. I had the serial numbers for two of his pistols, including the Llama, and knew where he bought several of the others.

In 2018 I received a call from a small town in Mississippi. The Llama was recovered from a hood rat after an armed robbery. Officer said it was in pretty rough shape but still worked. Told me I could have it if I wanted to come get it. I declined.
 
I bought a NIB hardchrome .45acp Llama MiniMax almost 20 years ago. As I recall, it appeared to be reasonably well-made.

I shot it on a number of occasions at my backyard range and it was relatively accurate but it suffers from a BTF propensity.

Shortly after that I started acquiring additional .45s (AO 1911A1, RIA 1911A1, Colt 1911A1, 2 Star PDs) and the Llama has sat, parked, in my South gunsafe ever since.

Just reminds me that I need to get that pup out and dirty it up, some. ;)
 
12Bravo20
The Ballister-Molina is a Venezuelan copy of the Sistima which is a copy of the 1911.

I believe the Ballester-Molina was made in Argentina by HAFDASA which was short for Hispano Argentino Fabrica de Automoviles SA, located in Buenos Aires. You are correct in that it's not a true copy of the Colt 1911 in that it used a pivoting trigger (instead of the 1911s sliding trigger), did not have a grip safety, and had a different shaped hammer.

Supposedly the steel used to make some of these guns was salvaged from the German pocket battleship Admiral Graf Spee after it was scuttled outside of the harbor of Montevideo, Uruguay in late 1939.
 
I have 3 of the small framed Llamas chambered in 32acp, one in 380acp, and an Airlight 22lr. It certainly is hit or miss from what “the internet” says but I have had no issues that were not common to many semi-autos. Have strongly considered by a Llama in 38 super.
 
I bought a Llama 9mm 1911 in the early 80s and was shocked to discover that it was a simple blow back action. It seemed to kick pretty hard for a 9mm but it worked well.
 
My father-in-law had one and now it's my wife's, but she'll never shoot it or sell it.
I've put 20 or 30 rounds through and changed the grips. It was probably unfired, and I never found any ammo at his place- go figure.
Seems to work fine. A mini-1911.

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Llama mini 1911.jpg
 
My experience....Lots of soft steel in the earlier models all the way up to the Omni series. The later stuff used better materials before the went out of business. Not the end of the world just best to go a little easy on the older 60s-80s pistols and inspect things well. On those pistols I would put the steal on par with something like commercial Norinco Toks (213 etc). The Omni pistols are really neat (if you like oddball stuff) but even the 9mm I had would beat itself up pretty bad with standard pressure 9mm. Lots of strange slide battering on that pistol with fairly low round counts vs most other wondernines of the era. Lots of quirky stuff on the Omni. Mine was the 9mm double stack and used a very strange bottleneck magazine in those days. That pistol felt like a beefy all steel tank and I was very disappointed at the premature wear which kind of soured me on Llamas.

The Llama 82 was a really nice pistol that I never had any issues and ....my opinion.... the best semi auto pistol they ever made. Some of those late model Max 1911s are really well made even though parts like extractors can be a real pain to source. I always liked the aesthetics of the 70s era 1911 copies with the vented ribs and funky grips but had but didnt like the soft steel issues I kept running into. Parts were always a pain to locate even when they were still in business. Astra and Star had issues as well with some of the steel on certain models. Typically the later the better with the big three Spanish semi auto pistol gun makers. I was really disappointed when they all went under as they had some great pistols on the market that were very high quality and affordable. Steel issues had been resolved....designs were well vetted....then poof. The doors were shut and we lost a lot of good all steel pistols.
 
I used to collect Spanish guns and had Astras , Stars and LLamas . Destroyer carbines in 9mm Largo , Astra 400s in .9mm Largo, Astra 600 in9x19, Star BS (a favorite in 9mm Largo but with a 9x19 conversion stainless barrel, recoil spring and modified extractor. I have a fine little Astra & Uncerti (SP ?) Ruby Pistol with french acceptance .32acp. The Star BS in 9mm largo/.38 would digest .38 Super all day long with Wolf heavy duty springs and I still have it around today with Israelian marked grips. I still have a few Astras .BTW my Star PD , with wolffe springs and a relatively low 1500 round count is fully dependable as an EDC !! I prefer it in a Sparks Summer Special holster as a carry gun sin the middle 80s when I bought it in Paulden Az. :)

I have found the Spanish made great revolvers too . A favorite is my Llama .22 & .357 , My Astra .44mag and a Cadix.
here is the Llama .22
wm_2072708.jpg
 
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I have a Llama VIII 1911 in 9mm that I've had very good luck with. The trigger needed some work but once that was done it’s a very good handgun. I also own several Stars and I don’t see them as similar as they have distinct differences. We’ll except they are all fun to shoot!
 
If you gents like to shoot a lot of rounds through the older Llamas.... I kept the springs fresh, lube the rails with grease, and even use a buffer if possible. Kind of like treating it as an aluminum frame pistol of the era. I shot the VIII in 9mm the most. Vented rib slide with the brown thumb rest grips was pretty wild looking and a nice pleasant shooter.

IMO...Stars really took a huge jump in quality starting with the model 28. After that they were top of the line for me. Astras got really good with the A100, A70, and A75 models. Before that the Astras could be hit or miss....mostly miss for me. Of the three manufacturers the late model Stars are the most durable. I would put them on par with1980-90s ruger pistols. Just heavy, dense, steel pistols. Even the little mini firestar 9mms were bricks. I wouldnt run anything hot through an Astra or Llama but the Star pistols starting with the Model 28 can probably handle it.

Really good book on Spanish guns if folks like to research this stuff. Spanish Handguns by Gene Gangarosa Jr. Lots of good Llama info in that book.

I dont want to sound like a downer on the Spanish stuff. They made good stuff. The pistols are typically safe if you go easy on them. I just became spoiled with a lot of the crazy durability many of the wondernines had back in the 80s-90s. Then you had cheap norinco Tok knockoffs in 9mm coming in by the boatload for under $100 so I went that route for the old school 9mm shooters because they would digest almost anything once they were dialed in.

Honestly... a lot of the Spanish stuff would have probably gotten more popular had it not been for the Beretta 92FS being such an iconic and sought after gun at the time. Seems like everyone had to have the Beretta... then maybe the Sig. Lots of good 9mms got kind of overlooked.... then the 40S&W came along and kind of turned the whole industry on its head.... then the 94 Bill kind of wrecked everything for the Spanish manufacturers in terms of commercial US market. Nobody liked nuetured hi-cap pistols that you couldn't find magazines for.
 
The Star PD and the Firestar line were ahead of their times as far as compact single stack concealable pistols go. Yes the Firestars are heavy with their all steel construction, but they shoot great. I have a M40 (40S&W) and a M43 (9mm).

With the PD and its aluminum frame you definitely want to swap out the recoil buffers on a regular basis.
 
The Star PD and the Firestar line were ahead of their times as far as compact single stack concealable pistols go. Yes the Firestars are heavy with their all steel construction, but they shoot great. I have a M40 (40S&W) and a M43 (9mm).

With the PD and its aluminum frame you definitely want to swap out the recoil buffers on a regular basis.

You should dump the PD and M43. 45acp and 40S&W are no good anymore. A 9mm does everything just as well or better than 40 or 45. Unless you get a 10mm.... which is better than 9mm because its bigger and more powerful. At least this is the modern logic around handguns.

Also..... all those Spanish junkers had hammers. Those all need to go as well because striker fired guns are better..... unless its a HK. Those are better than everything else because they cost so much.... and are German....HaHa.

Sorry for the kidding. Nice to see people still speak about all these old relic dinosaurs from the past before everything got so advanced.

Gotta go. Time to do a mud test and run a train over my 1941 Luger so I can put it on youtube and prove how unreliable and overated they are.
 
The Star PD and the Firestar line were ahead of their times as far as compact single stack concealable pistols go. Yes the Firestars are heavy with their all steel construction, but they shoot great. I have a M40 (40S&W) and a M43 (9mm).

With the PD and its aluminum frame you definitely want to swap out the recoil buffers on a regular basis.

Don't forget my personal favorite of the Star lineup; the UltraStar. It was an early polymer frame and so considerably overbuilt so that while light it feels as rigid as steel.

It came standard with a hammer drop/safety on each side and with the slide in the frame design it was a very, very comfortable and controllable pistol.

STAR in box.jpg

Here it is under my SigPro:

2009 &STAR UltraStar .jpg

But notice how much lower the barrel on the Star is compared to the SigPro.

STAR SiGPro barrels.jpg
 

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For some odd reason my father loved gaudy, garish things like Chinese Foo-dogs and the like. I gave him a phony-engraved Llama .380 that was blue with gold accents that should have gone to a Hollywood pimp. He loved it. I don't think he ever shot it but he thanked me many times for his beautiful pistol. It was hard for me not to gag.
 
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My brother had one of those UltraStars in 9mm. and he let me use it as a car gun whenever I took my family on a vacation. That gun was built like a tank, with that polymer frame feeling really solid and with some heft to it. The gun was also reliable and capable of some decent accuracy. Only thing didn't care all that much for was the location of the safety on the slide. It was kind of awkward to get to it at the back of the slide.
 
I was going to buy a nice-looking Llama 38 special revolver at the LGS recently, but when I came back the next day, it was gone.

This Astra in 45acp looks coincidentally a whole lot like a Sig. It works fine. The trigger isn't impressive.

I like the two 9mm Stars much better. The full-sized one looks like a 1911 without the grip safety, but it locks up like a BHP. The smaller one even locks up like a 1911. They're both good shooters.



 
All these Stars and no Monster Megastar 10mm? That was the crowning achievement for Spanish handguns IMO. Llamas was the M87 9mm Comp gun. Only got to shoot that one once but it was really nice. Quality of that pistol seemed on par with Beretta or Bernardelli.

My star super B had a chunk of the slide crack and break off behind the safety relief cut. Up until then I loved it! Nice ergos on those old super Bs.

Pretty sure the Star Firestars and Astra A70 won guns of the year back when they were introduced. Gun magazines really liked those Firestars. They all had the CZ style reverse rails and were known for accuracy. Star model 28 was known for durability. I think the Star 28/30 and Llama 82 were pistol trial contenders at one point.
 
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