back ground check question

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captain awesome

captain awesome

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If a person wants to buy a firearm from an FFL dealer but lives far enough away that it's a significant investment of time and gas to go to the dealers location, does that person have to be present for the NICS check to be run? This person says they are always delayed, and doesn't want to drive an hour just to have to come back in a day or two. It would be easy enough for them to send the info via phone or text or even emailing them the form 4473, having them fill it out and sign and date it, then emailing it back signed and dated with a picture of their drivers license/ID to make the dates and signatures correct, and then compare drivers license to their form. Then after getting a proceed response, have them come to the FFL location, and when they are physically present, make sure it's actually them...I don't know if thats legal or not, or if I am making sense to anyone. If you have any helpful info I would appreciate it. I thought about calling the ATF but I try to avoid that where ever possible.
 
I don't know about arizona , in wyoming if you have a ccw permit you can bypass the background check. still have to sign the form though , i think . i don't have ccw , so I'm not sure exactly how it works.
 
codytrucker said:
still have to sign the form though , i think .
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Yes, the 4473 is required irrespective of carry permit, state, or anything else. It's Federal law. ANY transfer of a firearm to an individual (as opposed to an FFL holder) requires the form. The ATF determines whether a particular state's permit meets the requirements needed to forego the background check.
Here in South Dakota Regular permits issued after 7/31/18, and all Enhanced and Gold permits allow bypassing the background check.
 
Huh, after you fill out the form isn't the check done right there. One dealer i goto does online and before I get my money out it is approved. Another calls it in over old fashioned copper and gets approved.
 
ericuda said:
Huh, after you fill out the form isn't the check done right there. One dealer i goto does online and before I get my money out it is approved. Another calls it in over old fashioned copper and gets approved.
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Rule3 said:
Just like a TeleHealth Dr appointment or a ZOOM call

Good Grief!
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Note that the OP says the "person" is always delayed, so the process for that person may not be as simple, short, and painless as it is for others. But the person has no choice, must be there in person.

As Cody Trucker notes, in Wyoming my carry permit means my FFL guy is not required to call in. I do need to be there in person to sign the form.
 
thanks for the responses, I really appreciate it. just want to make sure everything is done right and legally. they really need to modernize this whole process. It's kind of ridiculous for someone to be "delayed" at all in this day and age.
 
captain awesome said:
It's kind of ridiculous for someone to be "delayed" at all in this day and age.
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Well, remember the NICS is nothing but a long list of Prohibited people.
The Search Query Language macros they set up are nearing 40 years old now, and have not been improved nor much modified.
If the system gets a partial or duplicate "match" it kicks back a delay, as they need some one other than a phone operator to go in and look at the actual list information. (Things like if a person has no middle name, and it's listed as "NMI" versus "none" or "blank" or "n/a" matter; persons with more than one "middle" name also cause issues.)

The data in NICS is not well vetted, and sorely needs a detailed audit.

OP's friend would probably be much better off getting an NICS PIN, as the ID number skips most all of the name tracing.
 
ericuda said:
Huh, after you fill out the form isn't the check done right there. One dealer i goto does online and before I get my money out it is approved. Another calls it in over old fashioned copper and gets approved.
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Each state has its own rules. In Illinois you have a three day wait for anything the state calls a firearm and that includes air guns over 700 fps or .177 cal, black powder guns. I'm surprised they don't include airsoft, paintball and crossbows. Fill it out in person, wait three days, come back and sign again.
 
Federal laws stated- Black powder doesn’t require FFL 4473. Few exceptions… yet thats the Law.

Illiannoiying!
 
Lnf Crzr said:
Federal laws stated- Black powder doesn’t require FFL 4473. Few exceptions… yet thats the Law.

Illiannoiying!
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Not exactly. What type of powder is irrelevant. There are plenty of firearms that use black powder cartridges and are Title I firearms, not antiques and most certainly do require a Form 4473 to transfer. To avoid the definition of "firearm" under the Gun Control Act, it must be a muzzle loading firearm that uses black powder.
 
Ruger old army 44, 6 shot Muzzleloader handgun.

That’s Not required for a 4473. Can’t get much closer to A Cylinder cartridge gun

Or am I mistaken, (No sarcasm intended)
 
^^^
dogtown tom said:
Not exactly. What type of powder is irrelevant. There are plenty of firearms that use black powder cartridges and are Title I firearms, not antiques and most certainly do require a Form 4473 to transfer. To avoid the definition of "firearm" under the Gun Control Act, it must be a muzzle loading firearm that uses black powder.
Click to expand...
 
Lnf Crzr said:
Ruger old army 44, 6 shot Muzzleloader handgun.

That’s Not required for a 4473. Can’t get much closer to A Cylinder cartridge gun

Or am I mistaken, (No sarcasm intended)
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You are mistaken. You're mistaken very badly because you're pulling your opinions out of the air instead of doing actual research.

Using black powder isn't what takes a firearm out of the shipping and transfer requirements of the Gun Control Act of 1968. It's being within the definition of "antique firearm." See --

  • 18 USC 921(a)(3), emphasis added:
    (3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
    Click to expand...

  • 18 USC 921(a)(16):
    (16) The term “antique firearm” means—

    (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or

    (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—

    (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or

    (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or

    (C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.
    Click to expand...
 
Ok…. And that’s why I’m asking. Glad to have clarity on a subject im not familiar with….. Thank you!
 
^^^
Frank Ettin said:
You are mistaken. You're mistaken very badly because you're pulling your opinions out of the air instead of doing actual research.

Using black powder isn't what takes a firearm out of the shipping and transfer requirements of the Gun Control Act of 1968. It's being within the definition of "antique firearm." See --

  • 18 USC 921(a)(3), emphasis added:

  • 18 USC 921(a)(16):
Click to expand...
 
Rule3 said:
Just like a TeleHealth Dr appointment or a ZOOM call
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Telehealth calls fall under the privacy protections of HIPAA, requiring stronger and more restricted access protection than Zoom, FaceTime, Google Chat, or any other public video chat or web meeting software provides. That is why all telehealth calls use proprietary communication services set up by your medical provider.

captain awesome said:
or even emailing them the form 4473
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Email is fundamentally not secure and thus should never be used to send any sensitive personal or financial information, such as Social Security Number, credit card number, or private health status. A completed 4473 is full of such sensitive information.

Note that both of these issues are central in my 20+ year career in cybersecurity, including two years working specifically on security in medical health systems and HIPAA compliance.
 
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