Minimalistic way to test ammo reliability in a new HD pistol

I usually only have JHP's in the magazine loaded in the gun. Back up magazines are FMJ.
98% of self defense shootings are 2-3 shots.
If you are in a sustained gunfight it's not gonna matter, your just hopefully waiting on LEO to show up before your run out.

First three rounds and the last two should be jhp's for El Cheapo testing. Middle of the mag, generally ain't a problem.

The first round is going to go in, that's not why we test it. Will the recoil from the first JHP cycle in a completely full magazine, is the worry. So remember, full mag with one in the pipe, not a mag missing a round. After the first few rounds are gone, cycling is easy, until the last round which can hang up on a janky magazine follower.

9mm is a sketchy caliber.

There's tons of variation between brands. It's not one I'd skimp on. Sell the CZ and get a stack of Federal HST, Speer Gold dot, or Win Pdx1. Or keep the CZ and just pay up.

You can also reduce testing by choosing one brand for FMJ and JHP. Federals ammo is shaped about the same between those. If it runs really well on Federal FMJ, and runs well on 30 rounds of Federal JHP. You might be OK. Remember, you really only need a mag +1 left, for your CCW. Shoot the rest.

As mentioned above, my reload mags are also FMJ. It's much more practical in the salt belt.

I am assuming it is not cost but availability that is keeping you from getting a couple boxes of HP ammo.

I loaded some up, not my preference to use hand loads, but I did it in case I needed them. Then, I called around, got on line, checked out all the major local stores, even had some shipped directly from Fedral. call and ask the local stores asking if they have any in stock, and when they do, go get it right away. Usually you have to get there pretty quick before it is gone, but I am seeing more and more 9mm showing up, the SD ammo is a bit more scarce, but if you are persistent you can find it.

Failing that, load it and fire it with ball ammo, to break it in and if necessary to carry. I prefer good quality HD ammo, like most, but ball ammo will work in a pinch for SD and the odds of you having to use it and it over penetrating are slim to begin with. I like to know that my gun fires reliably with what is in it. If all I can test it with is ball, then I would carry ball. If I can put a few mags of HP through it (after a few hundred rounds of ball) and it all works fine, then I am ok with the HP working well. maybe carry a mag of HP and a mag of ball as backup if you are concerned about it.

lots of options, you have to do what you feel comfortable with.

d

just checked 9mm SD available.

https://www.federalpremium.com/handgun/premium-personal-defense/personal-defense-hst/11-P9HST1S.html

Congrats on the Canik! I have 3 of them. They run no matter what ammo i feed them. They are very accurate guns too. The SFX was the last one i bought. It was great out of the box. I have a SF too. The 1st time i shot it i'll never forget. I was really impressed with it for being striker fired. My other one is a CZ 75 clone. Sold under the Tri-star brand. It was the 1st Canik product i owned. I can exchange mags between all 3 guns.

At that price I'd got with the +P: https://www.federalpremium.com/handgun/premium-personal-defense/personal-defense-hst/11-P9HST3S.html

LG has them cheaper: https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-p-124-grain-hst-hp-federal-premium-law-enforcement-50-rounds

Always check https://gun-deals.com/list/ammo/9mm+Luger for prices before you mail order or buy in person so you fdon't get ripped off.

BSW

JHP's are completely available and regular priced where I'm at.

FMJ is marked up 200%, about half the price of high end JHP.

Why would you want that Canik thing over a CZ-75?

Targetsportsusa.com they also have cheaper 9mm hollow points.

dekibg said:

. . .should I put them maybe as a first and the very last round? that way I can see if first rounds goes into the battery without issues , and if last round gets ejected without stove pipe. . .

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You're on the right track. I'd say your minimal test load is an FMJ in the chamber, 2 HPs in the top of the mag, and one in the bottom, with FMJ in between. This tests the HPs for feeding and cycling in both extremes of the magazine condition.

You can also do this without firing the FMJ in between, but avoid allowing a single cartridge to be chambered many times without firing unless you're watching it's COAL. Setback is real.

Super cheapskate, but look who's talking!

I always want to fire a new or new-to-me weapon rapidly enough, enough times, so that it gets quite warm, so that any parts that somehow missed being properly heat-treated, will get warm enough to fail. Real-life examples, of firearms that failed, for me, include a new Kimber Stainless Gold Match, with an extractor that bent like a banana, backwards, the first time I got it warm, and new Seecamp LWS-25, with a slide that warped, and seized. The Seecamp was in the mid-Eighties, and the Kimber, IIRC, was made in the very late Nineties. So, even big-name gun makers can make fundamental, serious mistakes.

The above applies to all firearms, not just autoloaders. One prominent hunting author said that he liked to rapid-fire his bolt rifles, through several mag loads, to get them warm enough to reveal problems with the parts.

Notably, I had slow-fired that Kimber, with a few rounds, for accuracy, on private land, before that first serious range session. The extractor did not fail during that slow-fire session, because it did not get warm enough to warp. I do not recall how many rounds I had to fire, quickly, to get the extractor hot enough to warp, but it was no more than two or three magazines.

Then, with autoloaders, I would rather fire enough ammo for a statistically-meaningful sample. Some number of my handguns, owned since the mid-Eighties, would fail-to-feed about once every 400 rounds, or so, and would never seem to improve. Those would be OK for training purposes, or a range toy, but not for street carry. So, my comfort level, for a new or new-to-me autoloader, is somewhat more than 400 rounds, without a malfunction. If a malfunction occurs within the first 200 rounds, I will want to fire 400+ trouble-free rounds, after the malfunction.

This 400-round figure is for modern pistols, with straight-line feeding. I may want to run considerably more through a legacy/classic design, with a steep feed ramp that each bullet must climb.

If I make a fundamental change in ammo type, such as a wider hollow-point, I want to run at least two full magazines of it, through each of my carry mags. I will feel better about a new load, if I can run 200+ rounds through the weapon, but, assuming a modern auto-loader, with straight-line feeding design, can live with somewhat less, if I can run enough through my go-to carry mags.

Notably, I had a Glock G22, of what we now call Gen3, that never choked, even once, during countless rounds of 165-grain FMJ and JHP ammo, from 2002 to 2005, but then started locking-open, occasionally, with live rounds in the magazine, when fed 180-grain FMJ. Most likely, the slide stop was of out-of-spec, where it was designed to engage the mag follower, so, instead, was engaged by the differing profile of the 180-grain FMJ bullets. By that time, it was a range-only gun, as I had transitioned to a SIG P229, for duty and personal-time carry, and I soon sold it to a friend, with full-disclosure of its dislike for 180-grain ammo.

So, changing the ammo matters, especially when changing bullet nose profiles. Several thousand rounds of 165-grain FMJ and JHP worked fine, through that G22, but, it did not like 180-grain FMJ.

I would carry FMJ before I carried untested (or even limited tested HP's).

It is tough now but I would want to know that each mag will run a full mag of HP's through it. The mags are a key part of the equation as well as the pistol. To not test them is leaving a major component out of the equation. Or, if only testing 1 mag with HP's then that would be the only one I would put HP's in to carry.

Yes, I am being very cautious here but if you're going to bet your life on it, I would be cautious.

I remember when budget-conscious owners of 1911 pistols would keep a premium JHP in the chamber, and FMJ in the magazines, including the magazine inside the gun. Premium .45 ACP JHPs were quite precious, in the Eighties, being amazingly expensive, and not easy to find, for sale. The prospect of buying several hundred rounds of premium JHP, for function-testing, was financially daunting.

When I test new bullets in my 45 1911, I shoot a mag and then trust it. It's never failed with any ammo except my reloads using tc lee cast bullets. It has failed due to a falty mag using ball ammo. But it was isolated to just one mag.

I've fired, Hornady, federal, Winchester, and maybe some boutique hps. It's never offered any issues. So for my gun, I trust it after a mags worth.

For a new gun, I'd shoot a couple mags of ball ammo then a mag of hps, Then I'd trust it. I'm a trusting soul though. I figure if it's going to balk it'll do it right off the bat.

If it were me I'd still with the known good pistol/JHP combo and get more JHPs that you want to use.

I did just get a new pistol recently. I ran about 100 FMJs and 50 JHPs thru it w/o any malfunctions at all. That makes me pretty confident that the pistol works. If I had problems with the FMJs I wouldn't have bothered with the JHPs until the pistol reliably shoot those.

BSW

dekibg said:

I am not getting rid off CZ-75, Canik is taking over a role of primary home defence gun bc it has bigger capacity, front sight is fiber-optic and it is somewhat lighter

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You don't have magazine and sight options with the CZ-75?

Greg Cote has 18 rd and higher mags in stock for the 75, and it's looks like fiber optic front sights are also readily available.

What does a small weight change impact a home defense gun?

Minimalist function test? Load the magazine with FMJ, leaving room for 5 rounds of your defense ammo to be the top five rounds in the magazine. Seat the mag and chamber the first defense round. Remove the mag, top it off with one round of defense ammo, and seat it in the pistol. To function test, fire all six rounds. Repeat two more times for a total of three tests (18 rounds).

If the test is SAT (no stoppages), then load your magazines for defense the same exact way. Your first 6 rounds will be defense ammo and the remainder will be FMJ. The first 6 rounds will allow you to deal with the most likely defensive shooting encounters. The FMJ allows you to drive-on in the event you run into an outlier situation.

Instead of using an unknown/unproven round that you can't sufficiently test, why not get a couple of 50 rnd. boxes of Federal HST...you'd have enough to function test your gun and it's been proven over the years in LE/defensive shootings to work reliably.

I guess the philosophy of "I want to defend mine and my family's life, but I want to do it with absolute minimal cost/outlay" is lost on me?

I'd be concerned that you had a FTEj in 100 rounds. Blazer brass is good and warm ammo and one of the brands I buy in bulk to shoot at matches. I can't recall the last time I've had and kind of failure with that ammo.

One failure in 100 does not a bad pistol make, but right now you don't know if it was a fluke or it's constantly going to have a 1% chance of a stoppage. And that's with FMJs, which any modern pistol should digest flawlessly. You're really in the dark when it comes to JHP reliability.

I'm also not sold on the utility of having speed holes in the slide on a pistol intended for defensive use. Call me old fashioned but I just see another way for garbage to get into the slide.

BSW

Why is this so difficult?, Buy a few boxes of some wizz bang defensive ammo
Seems that if you bought another gun you could afford some ammo??