"Without hand fighting skills, you are just a walking holster"

Here is something to consider. If you choke someone out and they die.....you could quite likely go to prison. The current media and political mindset is very much against choke holds of any kind.

wvfarrier said:

Here is something to consider. If you choke someone out and they die.....you could quite likely go to prison. The current media and political mindset is very much against choke holds of any kind.

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If you use deadly force of any kind, expect to be in a courtroom explaining yourself- no matter what you used.

"Sports" training or otherwise, the ability to go into a fight already hard-wired with a skill set and the muscle memory to execute it, and being at least partially inoculated to hands on interpersonal violence can't be understated. I got punched a few times last week in the gym. I feel this puts me at an advantage if someone decides to start problems with me today, versus if I hadn't been in a fight since high school, or something like that. The interaction is more "routine", and my brain isn't trying to access and download some old file that I haven't used in forever.

I sent said brother the meme below. He texted back:

"I routinely have "first-time throwees" count to 3... and throw em on one. Doesn't give em time to tense-up."

wvfarrier said:

I learned a long time ago that one of the best "self defense" skills is learning how to take a punch. I cant tell you how many new officers I trained in defensive tactics who had NEVER been in a fist fight. Just like pepper spray and tasers, you have to know how to react and respond.

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Have you found that some people are more susceptible to having their brains scrambled than others? It doesn't take a substantial blow to give me that woozy feeling. I also can't spin around quickly more than twice without getting wobbly. Something just ain't right in my head!

I certainly agree with recent posts about knowing how to "take a punch". I think more than a few folks would be absolutely shocked to get hit in real life - YouTube has a great many videos of victims who simply can't process the fact that, like it or not, they are now in a fight - and I absolutely believe that just about any sort of sparring is a great way to recondition the mind.

I kind of disagree with the idea that BJJ is not good self defense training. As has been pointed out, street fights often go to the ground, and experience in that situation can absolutely be lifesaving. No, BJJ does not teach eye gouging and groin stomping, but that sort of thing is a bit tough to train realistically - and anyway, it doesn't take any kind of genius to figure out how to do it when it becomes necessary.

I do think groundwork is only half the game, though, and I believe a well-rounded fighter needs to seek out some stand-up striking training as well. A combination of Muay Thai, BJJ, one of the run-and-gun games, and some Martial Blade Concepts training would make for a pretty formidable man in a fight.

I will add one bit, as I am waist deep in martinis at the moment...

A few years ago I was sparring, in Muay Thai, against a guy about @Corpral_Agarn's size (I probably have 70 pounds and six inches of reach on him) and was having my way with him. As a bit of a joke, we did some groundwork, and he utterly wrecked me. I was honestly surprised, as even though my ground game is laughably bad, I figured my size advantage would more than make up for it. I was badly wrong. The fellow only had a year or so of BJJ, but I simply had no answer for him once we were off our feet.

My goals for 2022 are A) sign up for BJJ, and B) don't get knocked down in a fight.

dranrab said:

Have you found that some people are more susceptible to having their brains scrambled than others? It doesn't take a substantial blow to give me that woozy feeling. I also can't spin around quickly more than twice without getting wobbly. Something just ain't right in my head!

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Yes, I know people with the proverbial "glass jaw". Prior concussions don't help either.

FL-NC said:

Yes, I know people with the proverbial "glass jaw". Prior concussions don't help either.

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Interesting that you mentioned concussions. I have had two of those.

dranrab said:

Interesting that you mentioned concussions. I have had two of those.

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I've had like 6. But its ok because I think you get about 4 of them. What were we talking about?

FL-NC said:

I've had like 6. But its ok because I think you get about 4 of them. What were we talking about?

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Me either. Happy 4th of July!

Corpral_Agarn said:

Anyway the guy asked me what I was looking to get out of it and I mentioned that I am a firearms instructor and wanted to bridge the gap in my hands on skills for self defense and general fitness purposes.

He tells me, "well, without fighting skills, you are just a walking holster, right?

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Sounds like a good salesman.

“I am looking to bite this kind of bait, what do you have?” “Well, I think you would think this tastes great.”

Kleanbore said:

Really?

"As of May 2017, Pincus found that 86 percent of defensive shooting situations occurred at distances from 9 to 15 feet (Rob quotes the 9- to 15-foot range from data collected by Rangemaster Tom Givens.) Moving back to 21 feet covers 90 percent of gunfights, with 5 percent occurring beyond 21 feet and 5 percent occurring closer than 9 feet".​

My arms aren't that long.

Active shooter =/= armed defender, unless he is mobbed.

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I think the point is, inside a certain distance, it won't be a gun fight. In a public place, a hostile might well be within punching distance before you can identify the threat. A supermarket, a restaurant, a gas pump, any retail store you can think of. An attacker can strike before you know what is happening. They don't wear neon signs, typically.

In the intervening months since this thread started, I began training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

I'm not young, and training doesn't come without its aches and pains. However, its excellent exercise with a good group of people and has given me another toolset if needed.

If nothing else, I can say that the feeling of being in a grappling match is no longer claustrophobic. I can have someone try to take me down, or even be scrambling for position, and now retain the ability to not panic, to think, to counter, etc. Having that reduction in the stunned feeling of surprise if I find myself in a fight is worth it's weight in gold.

psyopspec said:

If nothing else, I can say that the feeling of being in a grappling match is no longer claustrophobic.

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This is important- it is one aspect of inoculation against interpersonal violence. Most people don't like to fight at this range. This is intimate range- which is generally reserved for activities with friends and family at different degrees and for much different purposes.

A Black Belt in Ching-Ching-Pow will overrule a Black Belt in BJJ. You shouldn't let people that close to you.

Corpral_Agarn said:

But it happens

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It sure does.
I wonder what that magic safe distance is, though. I just had this conversation with my boss a few weeks back. I'm 45 years old and way out of practice, but anything less than about 12 feet of distance I could cover and stab him with a sharpie marker before he could get his fake gun from concealment and squeeze the trigger. He also struggled with tunnel vision...so focused on getting his gun out that he offered no resistance with his empty hand.

Like I said, I'm old and out of practice. Someone younger/quicker could possibly double that distance, which would mean not letting anyone within 20+ feet of you. Good luck with that.

Cayle said:

A Black Belt in Ching-Ching-Pow will overrule a Black Belt in BJJ. You shouldn't let people that close to you.

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Unless a fellow is a complete hermit, he is going to have people within grabbing distance on a daily basis. So far today I have been within a few feet of dozens of people - grocery store, fast food joint, sidewalk, workplace - and I can't think of any way at all to have avoided it.

Cayle said:

A Black Belt in Ching-Ching-Pow will overrule a Black Belt in BJJ. You shouldn't let people that close to you.

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Shooing people away with a pistol you keep in your hand all the time like a millennial with a cell phone may become problematic. "Social distancing" is not a good enough explanation for this, and it would make Christmas and other holidays awkward.

FL-NC said:

Shooing people away with a pistol you keep in your hand all the time like a millennial with a cell phone may become problematic. "Social distancing" is not a good enough explanation for this, and it would make Christmas and other holidays awkward.

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If you walk around with a pistol in your hand, social distancing will take care of itself. Until the police arrive, anyway.