44 Spc or 357 for defense?

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ontarget said:
Just curious what you all think.
I have both, but I've been fighting the urge to hunt down a decent K or L frame in 44 Spc. This evening I came across a nice 65-3 357 mag.
Now I'm getting all jittery and feverish and my eyes are getting bloodshot trying to decide.
Please help.
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I carry a 686+, but just ordered a Model 69 that I will pick up tomorrow. I will probably carry both as both will fit the same holster. Both are L frames. 7 shots of full power 357 vs 5 shots of 44 spc or magnums... When in doubt, get both has been my motto.

If you are willing to carry a 44spc on a L frame, might as well carry a 686+ (7 rounds) over the 65. Plus correct me if I am wrong, don't all the older K frames have the flattened forcing cones which doesn't lend themselves to shooting 357 regularly?

FYI: I do not believe S&W makes a K frame in 44. I could be wrong though.
 
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wcwhitey said:
Both are great for your purpose. Do you reload? .44 Special isn’t easy to find right now. It is a reloaders dream though. I love the caliber. .38/.357 is also a great combo, easier to find good ammo and great for defense. It’s a hard call, if you can get or make ammo either will work great. I know that doesn’t help but sometimes you just gotta buy what you want, either will do.
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I reload both and have a few of both. It's a good choice either way.
 
Info. from a former LEO and now self defense trainer that collected shootings/deaths based solely on caliber. It does not show penetration of projectile size or type. It does show
average number of shots taken, caliber and average death count. The Leo collected the info from police and civilian shootings. You will find averages to be quite close except for rifle and shotguns. Pick a gun you like, Period. https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
 
Thomasss said:
Info. from a former LEO and now self defense trainer that collected shootings/deaths based solely on caliber. It does not show penetration of projectile size or type. It does show
average number of shots taken, caliber and average death count. The Leo collected the info from police and civilian shootings. You will find averages to be quite close except for rifle and shotguns. Pick a gun you like, Period. https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
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Very informative and eye opening. Thanks for posting this.
 
cfullgraf said:
You can accomplish the same with a S&W Model 69 with a 2-3/4" barrel, just load it with 44 Special loads.
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Ah, but you can get a M-696 without the pointless lock and the change in frame contour which the M-69 so proudly displays.

Dave
 
SDGlock23 said:
I think 357 Mag is a better "social" cartridge than the .44's because you get loads that are a bit better suited for that purpose. If it's for the woods then I think the 44's have the edge. Both will work for either so it's really whichever you really want the most.
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"Better suited", but only a reloader can ensure subsonic rounds and those suited to the K-frames, while purchased ammo is typically stuff you hope you never have to fire, especially indoors or from a vehicle. I understand that even that ammo is toned down from the original spec for N-frame shooting. I had a 696 and sold it preferring other choices with 6 rounds. Great gun though. My 44 Spl is a single action, Blackhawk, which I like a lot but shoot only at the range. I don't do woods walks but might carry the Blackhawk if I did.
 
Dave T said:
Ah, but you can get a M-696 without the pointless lock and the change in frame contour which the M-69 so proudly displays.

Dave
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The 69 seems better suited for a carry, has an updates crane lock up, and can be found new for under $800. I don't like the lock, but it's existence doesn't really make a difference in the grand scheme of things. I did not know that the 686 shipped without the internal lock???
 
As a practical matter for a CCW, if you ever need to lauch a .357 magnum indoors without hearing protection, it's going to hurt you!:eek:
A .44 special isn't quite as painful on your eardrums however even a .38 is going to be kind of brutal.
Just something to consider.
 
Thomasss said:
Info. from a former LEO and now self defense trainer that collected shootings/deaths based solely on caliber. It does not show penetration of projectile size or type. It does show
average number of shots taken, caliber and average death count. The Leo collected the info from police and civilian shootings. You will find averages to be quite close except for rifle and shotguns. Pick a gun you like, Period. https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
Click to expand...

I'll see if I can dig up the link, but I think he modified his ".380 or better beats anything smaller" conclusion later, when he spotted a reason .380 might be skewed higher than it should be.
 
ontarget said:
Just curious what you all think.
I have both, but I've been fighting the urge to hunt down a decent K or L frame in 44 Spc. This evening I came across a nice 65-3 357 mag.
Now I'm getting all jittery and feverish and my eyes are getting bloodshot trying to decide.
Please help.
Click to expand...

Shooting .357, in the snubs that I'd be actually carrying on a consistent regular basis, is Not Fun.

Shooting an appropriate .44 Special* load through my Bulldog, is "boomier" than a .38, but not obnoxious. IMHO&YMMV.

(*The "Wisdom of the Interwebz" sez, stifle your inner Elmer Keith, shoot moderate loads, 200grains or less, more or less. YMMV.)
 
If the OP found a deal on a model 65 I would get it. I have a model 65 with 4" barrel that was a police turn in. Its one of my favorite 357s. I have shot full power rounds through it but really like to shoot my mid range loads loaded in 357 brass. Those are hard cast SWC bullets pushed by 6.6grs of Unique. Those get around 1100+fps depending on the gun and barrel length. hey are also much more pleasant to shoot than full power rounds.

I would love to have a 44 special but so far I am not willing to spend what they want for the guns and the scacity of ammo. I do reload for 44 mag on 44 special dies. I make 44 special loads I shoot from my Super Black Hawk so can appreciate why the 44 special is so well liked. But given the problems finding a 44 special I would probably just get a cut down 1911 like a Commander and go with the 45acp. Or one of the Glock 45acp guns. That would scratch my itch just as well for a big bore gun.
 
I have 4 357 Magnums and 0 44 Specials so I may be biased but the world has pretty much decided .36 caliber is optimal against other humans for self defense purposes. The 357 Magnum is essentially the most potent .36 caliber handgun most of us can effectively use so by default that is the better choice. In normal times 357 Magnum ammo is much cheaper and easier to find however in the current environment it is neither. Also, there has never, in my memory at least, been so many 357 Magnum's to choose from.
 
.38 Special said:
I'm not arguing with you, but I'm also unfamiliar with a factory S&W K frame in .44 Special - to the best of my knowledge, all the ones I've seen were custom. Which model are you thinking of?

<edit> Looks like @nofendertom beat me to it.
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No matter the model, there are NO S&W factory "K" frames chambered in 44spl... NONE!

But, I do have a custom "K" frame 44 spl.

M-19-44-Spl.jpg

DM
 
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I just got this notice from the Department Of Home Defense (DOH!)

Public Safety Alert:

Due to the increased herd immunity of criminals to popular self-defense calibers, DOH has teamed with Federal Premium Ammunition and Smith & Wesson to bring you the .30 Super Carry. As you can tell from the name, it is the best and only self-defense caliber. All self-defense firearms and ammo should be summarily turned in to the author of this post. You can PM him for details on the transfer. Due to the large number of respondents, you may be required to cover shipping and handling.
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https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/you-asked-for-it-you-got-it-30-super-carry.899822/
 
I once owned an "L" frame, Smith & Wesson Model 696, 5-shot revolver, chambered in .44 Special (for use in self-defense). A good friend of mine, sadly passed, had an also "L" frame, Smith & Wesson Model 686 Plus, 7-shot revolver, chambered in .357 Magnum. We traded even-up (years ago); he getting the best deal (by far, as it turns out) monetarily, me getting the advantage in terms of self-defense, imo. No regrets from either of us-but I wish I had both. ;)
 
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I, too, have a Taurus Model 415, chambered in .41 magnum. It has a 2 1/2" ported barrel and I've found the recoil to be surprisingly controllable; helped, I think, by the unique "ribbed" grips. Its size, I believe, is somewhere between a K and L frame S&W. Like the aforementioned Smith Model 686, in terms of self-defense, its liability is five shots vs the six and seven shots afforded revolvers chambered in .357 Magnum.
 
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