Is there a sub moa 5.56 semi auto that isn't an AR15?

silicosys4 said:

sig 55*-series.
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Love those rifles.

Sadly, I was late in the game, and only managed to get a latter - model 556R, which I had to get some parts for to make it resemble the rifle above.

JJFitch said:

I'm sure there is a Ruger Mini 14 in .223 somewhere that can claim that title.

I've never seen one!

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I suppose that's possible but I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for it.

Walkalong said:

Mine is a Sig556 Classic

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Is that the 551 - A1?

How do the KelTecs shoot?

SIG 55*

Beretta AR70

Daewoo K2 (?)

Speedo66 said:

How do the KelTecs shoot?

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Well, you rack it and then pull the trigger.




Sorry couldn't help it.

someguy2800 said:

As the title says, I got curious by another thread in here, is there a semi automatic rifle you can buy in the US, chambered in 223/5.56, will shoot sub moa, and is not based in any way on an AR15? Not really looking to buy anything, I am just curious and want to broaden my horizon a bit. I love my AR15 as a varmint rifle but I don't think I'm aware of anything that can compete with it toe to toe in terms of mechanical accuracy in a semi auto. Anything out there that I'm missing?

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Yes, Mini 14 sent into Accuracy Rifle Systems and put on HBBL and trigger job. I did this for prairie dog shooting. It will hit a prairie dog at 400 yds if I can do my part. Very accurate but doubled the price of rifle. ( Ummmm- that was 35 years ago as I think about it.lol)

I have a beat up old WASR 3 AK that will consistently group under 1/2 inch at 100 yards (if you take away the "/" and add an "es" after the inch).

someguy2800 said:

Aren't those sig 550's? I thought the sig 556 was sig's ar15

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Not really an ar15 at all. Takes ar15 mags and thats about it. More like a updated ak pattern. Mine was a serious tack driver and I used it for deer and varmint hunting. If you can find one, I would recommend one. And if you are not looking for a tactical look. look at the Benelli MR1. Sleek looking hunting rifle that takes ar15 mags.

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/benelli-announces-mr1-carbine-in-556-nato/


EDIT, the new MR1 does not look like a hunting rifle at all.

There are always accurized models and statistcal anomalies which will, but a production model that will be that precise on average, no.

The bolt design and Stoner gas system are the attributes which make the AR an accurate autoloader. A floating gas tube with a tiny mass has virtually no effect on barrel harmonics, and the receiver itself has no bearing on bolt lock up. Getting an op rod gun with a more conventional twin lug or locking shoulder bolt that engages features in the receiver to shoot like an AR is very difficult, generally requires tightening them up and a much more rigid barrel. The CETME/G3 pattern roller delayed guns do have potential, but the typical arrangement with the cocking tube connected to barrel via front sight instead of free floated barrel hinders them.

How about the CZ Bren Gen 1/2? No personal experience but something tells me they would be in the 1.5+ MOA.

Or there is the Sig MCX, FN Scar, Steyr Aug, Tavor, Keltec SU-16, Galil Ace.

Not sure on any of those but they come to mind.

General Geoff said:

FN SCAR 16, with top shelf match ammunition or well-crafted hand loads.

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I saw a recent article and range report that they are a 3 MOA rifle. The range report showed that. I think it was the NRA magazine.

No....

Probably best bet is the B&T APC223... maybe

CZ Bren maybe
Beretta APX maybe
Desert tech MDR maybe
SCAR unlikely
HK SL8 probably not
Maybe an old Browning BAR or Rem 750

The Mini-14 with a little work and about $150 in parts, not including glass.

While I love my SIG 550, I don't think it is a sub-moa rifle, nor was it intended to be. I believe the STG-90 was expected to produce 2 moa. Maybe the SIG 550 Sniper.

JCooperfan1911 said:

AR-180.

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While strictly speaking not an AR-15, I don't think that's what the OP has in mind, because for all practical purposes, most would say it is an AR-15. However, based on limited experience so far with my BRN-180 upper, it's a good suggestion, because I think that with a decent scope, it has a pretty fair chance of being a sub-MOA shooter. I got some roughly 2-MOA groups at 100 yds using Magpul flip-up irons and a Romeo5 red dot with the dot cranked up to over 1 MOA for lighting conditions and a weak battery.

The linear nature of the AR15 is hard to beat when it comes to accuracy, the force is heading straight back from the chamber (as a bolt gun would) as opposed to most if not all long or short stroke piston guns which has a reciprocating mass above the chamber. How much this effects the accuracy can be debated. But I think it's safe to say that it would be a downside in comparison to a DI AR15, in accuracy and controllability, carrier-tilt is a thing; now companies have designs that mitigate it but it still follows that every action has a reaction. And when a piston impinges on a bolt carrier at the top, the reacting force is rearward and downward which can cause increased wear and potential loss in accuracy.

I know this doesn't suggest another sub-moa 556, but does give some insight as to why this may be. I'm not suggesting it is THE reason, just simply an important distinction that could give some reasoning why it is hard to beat the Stoner design in accuracy.

There are some high-end piston AR15 variants (PWS, etc) that can shoot MOA, but probably not sub-MOA. And they're $1500+ too. You pay for the privilege of easier cleaning.

I have the PWS MK116 Mod-1 and love it. However it's the only AR15 I've ever owned so I can't compare it to a DI.

someguy2800 said:

Aren't those sig 550's? I thought the sig 556 was sig's ar15

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I think you're thinking of the Sig M400, which is the Sig AR15 patterned rifle.

Speedo66 said:

How do the KelTecs shoot?

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I have shot an RDB and an SU-16. Never used more than a red dot or iron sights. So I don't know.

I still look at sub-MOA rifles as a special level of accuracy. Maybe that makes me old. A lot of AR's come that way with the right ammo. I am usually happy with a consistent 2-3 MOA that doesn't widen out too much when the barrel gets hot.