Who Wants an 8mm Cartridge?

Kleanbore said:

I haven't detected any of that here. In any quantitative analysis, the actual numbers count. I can shoot a 9 more rapidly with control than a .45. Forensic experts say that the 9 is okay, but they haven't told us of any adequate .32 rounds. If they were to endorse a hot .32, the sound pressure would dissuade me.

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Have you ever shot a .32 NAA before? It's not .327 levels of ouch.

Kleanbore said:

There has been serious effort put into developing a defensive round in 8mm--in a rimmed case.

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I don't see much serious effort, most arr pretty much using the same tech as what was done with the 357 in the 1970s. Just run cup n core bullets 1500 fps.
Federal Hydra shok LOL. Where's the Federal HST, Hornady Critical Duty, Winchester Ranger T or the Short Barrel Gold Dot.
I think they have really missed the boat so to speak with a modern bullet design they could make something in the 115-120 weight range that expands consistently at 1000-1200 fps and get very near 38+p/ 9mm performance without making your ears bleed. Something like the 357 SBGD loading.

From what I've read on why they stopped using the 7.62 Tokarev is, besides the cheaper guns used in the lower power Makarov guns, the 7.62x25 round over penetrated and since the round changed from military to police, they feared there was too high of chance or pass-through to other civilians.

But, I think if you have the right bullet, over penetration is a non-issue. I've never heard any complaints with 357 mag. I know the older Tokarev bullets were plated in steel, as there was a copper shortage and that probably has a lot to do with over penetration.

To me a 100 gr 8mm bullet going 1450fps in a lightweight, small autoloader with an expanding bullet would be a pretty good man stopper.

Kleanbore said:

Nor does it provide service performance. I have never seen the point.

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Ah, again with the "it's not recommended by major police or law enforcement agencies" argument. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions and not speaking from any real scientific fact. Here's an informative video you might find educational. As you will see, it can provide "service performance" as it meets FBI specs.

During Ian's monthly Q&A yesterday, he was asked about what pistol he'd entertain in 7.65 french, his answer was a SIG 365.
The 7.65x20 is in the ballpark of the sort of round OP was suggesting. Ian's point was in being able to get a small round in quantity in a small pistol.

So, the notion is not from out in left field.

Now our counter-argument we've had here involves whether such a thing would be enough better to justify the effort. And, that's the great unknowable.

I'd like to see it a little hotter than 7.65 French. How much? I don't know. What if we just pushed the pressure up a wee bit and called it 7.65 French Super, and went for that?

Knowing whether something like this justifies the effort is absolutely knowable! Someone must just decide to try it... And unfortunately, until someone other than me tries, it will be absolutely unknowable

Ever see the FN Browning 7.65 French? A last gasp effort to try to recoup the expense of the GR and GP the French reneged on.

Some ones heard the this request and delivered

Oui oui !

8 millimètre Automatique Pistolet Cartouche !

Yes, if I like the handguns chambered in it, the gun is good enough to be accepted by western military or Police Depts…..and prices for bulk ammo seem ‘acceptable’.

Also, as a card-carrying Dinosaur
it should be DA/SA and preferably all-metal (but that’s heavy, like a Led Zeppelin!).

The reasons I bought a few German-made Sigs, 3rd Gen. S&W types, the Walther P99 AS (Both striker & DA/SA) and the CZ PCR basically exclude almost any chic, fashionable plastic, very modern gun.

Are we talking about the 30 Super Carry? There's a gun or two and ammo in this new caliber, and it's basically 8mm.

I noticed a few threads like this one from months back basically describing the new 30 Super Carry to the T, and inquiring what people would think of such a cartridge... I'm guessing people in the know testing the market waters before the big release?

Ethan Verity said:

I noticed a few threads like this one from months back basically describing the new 30 Super Carry to the T, and inquiring what people would think of such a cartridge... I'm guessing people in the know testing the market waters before the big release?

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If that's the case, we should expect a .34 caliber, 8.6 x 19 cartridge pushing 105gr projectiles at 1200 ft/sec and producing around 336 ft-lb of muzzle energy - a gun that recoils like a 380 but a bullet that penetrates like a 9mm.

Any

day

now...

Got any stock tips? @WrongHanded

WrongHanded said:

As the OP of this particular thread, I can honestly tell you, I had no idea that 30 Super Carry (by that name or any other) was on the horizon. I was just curious how people would feel about such a cartridge. I'm definitely not "in the know" about such things. It just seemed to me that the projectile technology had a reached a point such a cartridge could perform well enough to be viable.

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I think it has reached that point. I just dont think this one is it. Might be good if they design to pistols around it though instead of plugging it into 9mm pistols. Conversion kits might be fun to tinker with. There are a couple 9mms that are kind of lightly built that a thicker walled 30 super barrel might help things.

Ethan Verity said:

I noticed a few threads like this one from months back basically describing the new 30 Super Carry to the T, and inquiring what people would think of such a cartridge... I'm guessing people in the know testing the market waters before the big release?

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Alas, I did not know. But it seems like they hit most of my design requests! I probably would have tried for something not quite so powerful, maybe 10% less gumption than what they are telling us, but I’ll take it!

WrongHanded said:

Honestly, the small CCW pistol market seems to competitive these days, I think there's a decent chance we'll see some new pistols designed just for the 30SC. Gun manufacturers want to sell guns, and an "exciting" new cartridge is a great way to do that. So do they phone it in like S&W has done, or try and make a great little pistol in an attempt to corner the market (temporarily at least) in the same way the P365 was so successful?

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Well looking at recent patterns I think every major manufacturer will at least enter the 30super market with a rechambering at least just to have something out there. Ego thing. It might be a while before something designated to 30super from the ground up. Probably be Kelgren since he is the only one who has any vision. It will probably be something the size of a desert eagle and belt fed but what the hell.

The cartridge has a chance if Federal is willing to accept a slow build up. If they are thinking its going to be the next 40s&w they are in for a rude awakening.

C0untZer0 said:

should expect a .34 caliber, 8.6 x 19 cartridge

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Hmm, why not an 8.5x25 maybe 8.5x30 and call it the .333magnum? []

Zahn said:

Got any stock tips? @WrongHanded

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Or lottery numbers?? You nailed it .

Let’s see what the options are and sales look like over the next year or so, it may be interesting for sure.

Stay safe.